TRANSCRIPT
Becoming a Design Master - Bill Burnett | The CJH Podcast EP19
*Captions are taken directly from YouTube and may not be 100% accurate
[Music]
wow today we have Bill Bernett uh in the
studio thanks for being here I'm it's
great to be here thank you thank you so
a little bit about him he is the adjunct
professor and the executive director of
the life Design Lab at Stanford right
yes uh co-author of the New York Times
bestseller designing your life yep
managing director of the life design
Institute of Singapore which you going
to share a little bit Yeah brand new
brand new okay and he cool thing about
it he designed some Star Wars toys and
also worked for Apple yeah Star Wars was
fun yeah welcome here and uh I'm so
curious about how how your journey
actually began um and where was those
inflection points along the way to where
it is right now well I'll tell I'll tell
you the truth I won't clean it up I'll
tell you cuz I was a pretty confused kid
when I was little but um you know when I
was um I grew up in Boston and on the
east coast of the United States and uh
when you know I was going time came to
come to college I I was just looking
around and I didn't really have any big
plans or anything but honest to God like
the last day I got an application and I
just wrote it by hand and I sent it into
Stanford and I don't know how that how I
got in because I hadn't done any
research I had done anything but anyway
I got in and then to me it was like well
it's as far away from my parents as I
could go because Stanford is on the west
coast I would grown up on the East Coast
so I really wanted I just wanted to get
away from home you know try something
new but I hadn't I didn't really have a
strategy about you know like what
college or anything it was I knew it was
a pretty good college
so I arrive and I thought I would be a
physics major right so if you say you
want to be a physics major they assign
you an adviser and I got Dr Richard
Taylor who looked him up he won the
Nobel Prize for discovering the Quark
okay he's amazing and he's a really cool
guy too he wasn't kind of a nerdy
scientist he was a big guy he's very
very
friendly after a couple of quarters of
of failing out of physics classes dror
Taylor and I went for a walk he said I
don't really think you're going to be a
physicist do you really still really
want to be a phys I said I you know the
math is getting really hard and and I
got to tell you Dr Taylor I noticed
there are no girls in my physics classes
he says yeah there are no women in
physics not now days there are amazing
women in fact a woman just won the Nobel
Prize in physics but in those days he
said maybe you should try something else
and I'm like I don't know what else I
could do um and I don't want to flunk
out so um I thought well I like science
but I've always been an artist I used to
draw and sketch and now I I have a
painting practice so I paint so I
thought I know I looked in the book you
can make your own major so I thought all
right I'll be the first science and art
major that'll be awesome I go up to to
the engineering office and there's a
wonderful woman there named K Bradley
who's just was like the person who kept
everybody you know happy and she ran the
whole place and I said K I'm going to
declare my own major and she said what
is it I said it's going to be science
and and art and she says oh you don't
have to do that it's called design just
go down the down the hall and talk to
this guy Bob mckm and there was a guy at
Stanford who back in the 60s created
this program where he took he said well
Engineers need to learn some psychology
because we're designing for people right
so you don't want to design inhuman
things you need to know about
humans and yeah form follows function
but one of the functions of the world is
to be beautiful we don't want to design
ugly stuff so he created and I don't in
the 60s everybody was like Space Race
you know math and science and he's like
no we're going to teach engineering plus
Art Plus psychology and I thought
wow that's great and so L you know
I picked Stanford because it was as far
away from my parents as I could get and
it's the only program in the country in
the world that time that combine all the
things that I like so it was it was
great and I went from being a really bad
student to a pretty good student because
you know once you find something that
you that you like that you care about
that that meet I mean most I think most
of us are more than one thing right yep
I mean yeah I like math but I like I
like music and art and I play guitar and
piano and and so all these different
things I didn't want to have to just you
know like split my personality and only
be half of a person anyway so that
turned into the job at Kenner where we
were doing Star Wars toys I got to work
in the first movie and the second movie
and I got to work on Raiders of the Lost
Arc you know the you know the Flying
Wing where they have the B the the
Indies fighting this this nazzi guy and
he punches them and he and he falls into
the propeller I did the flying wing for
for the toy for the toys
was for cool
anyway then I came back to the valley
and I got I got my masters and then I
did some more stuff and one of my
professors was doing a startup so I
joined that and then another a buddy of
mine and I did a a company we started
our first company and you know and and
what I realized later in my life is that
I didn't really know what I was doing
like I didn't have a I never had a plan
so much but but I knew what I liked and
I knew what I I kind of intuitively knew
what would make me happy or what I'd be
good at M and so when stuff came along
like there were a couple of jobs at you
know big companies and I was like I
don't think that's going to fit for me
and my professor said hey I'm doing this
startup I was like yeah that sounds like
fun so I always just sort of
intuitively found the next I I've never
applied for a job looked for a job sent
a resume in you know on the internet was
some a friend said hey you want to come
check this out and and then if if it
worked it worked so so when I talked to
students about finding jobs they say
you're going to find jobs through your
networks that's where the good jobs are
you know in the US anyway eight out of
10 jobs are never listed they're never
on the internet the stuff that's on the
Internet is just the the boring jobs the
stuff that's interesting is stuff that
comes from friends of yours or people
that you know yeah so anyway so fast
forward and then I went to Apple and
worked there for a while and then I did
a Consulting because I after Apple's
cool but you can only design computers
and I want to design something else so a
buddy of mine and I started a consulting
company and I got to design like toilets
and I got to design Radars and I got to
design like drill guns all sorts of
crazy stuff we did we do all sorts of
stuff um and and then and we kind of
specialized in helping companies take
their their designs into China so we had
an office in Silicon Valley and we had
an office in Hong Kong so I used to go
to Hong I had an office there I used to
to go there four or five times a year
and I kind of fell in love with the Far
East with Hong Kong with Singapore with
Bangkok and stuff and so it's like all
right and in 2006 David Kelly called me
up and David's the guy who started at
Ido the big you know big innovation firm
and he had just started the D school and
he said hey I need some help have you
ever thought about being a full-time you
know professor and I said well not
really but what's it paid he says well
about half of what you're making okay
great so I thought all right now if we
could you know if I could I've made a
lot of products but if I could if I
could make a thousand designers you know
10 years a thousand designers and we
were only graduating about 30 or 40 kids
out of our program every year he said
you know and I got to run these programs
if I could create if we could create
more students create a thousand
designers then you know that would be a
bigger impact than making another TV or
another coffee cup or another you know
another computer so I went to I went to
Stanford in 2006 and I started working
on scaling our program and bringing in
more digital stuff and other stuff and
along the way a buddy of mine Named Dave
Evans who co-writes the books with me
said um hey you know I've been talking
to a lot of students because he he did
was doing some stuff over at Berkeley
and I was doing stuff at Stanford and he
said you know are your students confused
I said yeah you
know I said Stanford students are really
smart and they don't know anything right
they don't know anything about life or
jobs or anything yeah and so they're
really they're confused and they're
really struggling to launch and I said
let's just put together like a little
design class a little class you know 15
students that's 15 of my grad
students because it seems to me like if
you're designing something
new like you know an iPhone or something
you don't know what it's going to be
until you build it you have to build it
a bunch of times prototype it try a lot
of stuff right yeah it seems to me like
well your future is like an unknown
product it's going you want it to be
great you want it to be better than your
present isn't so you have to design it
so we started taking all the rules that
we teach designers for Designing new
products and and and turning them into
into ways of
designing your the next step in your
life and it worked really great uh so
great that
like the guys at the career center
called and said hey you got to do a
class for all the seniors and I'm like I
don't know but we did that and then and
the provos called you got to do a class
for all the freshmen I'm I don't know
but we did that
and then and then we did a class for the
grad students which I just taught I just
finished my quarter in June um and MBA
is from you know Stanford grad school
business school and stuff and um and he
just turned into a really cool thing and
then I realized oh wait a minute what I
did is I just put I put words and some
ideas around stuff I've been doing all
the time just subconsciously you know um
sometimes you know what you know if you
if you if you can listen to yourself now
what your mom wants you dad dad wanted
me to be just a straightup engineer you
know and everybody wanted me to be
something different but I kind of
figured out that this this was probably
the better thing but not everybody you
know not everybody has a strong inner
voice right it takes a little practice
to listen to yourself because you got
all these voices in your what your mom
wants what your dad wants you know what
Society tells you you're supposed be and
all these things so um so anyway so we
create this class and then we write a
book right Dave and I write this book
and it turns out I mean i' never written
a book before I don't know but turned
out to be pretty
good and then all these schools started
calling us and saying hey you know this
is a cool curriculum we don't have
anything like this at at you know
Harvard or Yale or Berkeley or whatever
and then um so we said all right well
we'll figure out a way to give it away
we just give it to everybody who wants
it in the universities and then we did
and then now we're up to like 300
universities and 1,200 Educators it's
it's really I mean this is
like I never
ever completely random like I just
wanted to help a couple of my friends
students couple of my friends you know F
kids who were trying to you know
graduate from college and figure out
what to do and it turned into this big
movement and then uh so we're running
these things we're teaching lots of
schools and then this guy Mark we calls
me up and Mark was at the time he was
the head of design Singapore design
Singapore Council which is the design
Council for the government here to try
to you promote the creative economy and
get more and Mark's a great guy and he
said hey like I hear you do these these
Studios could you train a bunch of
people in Singapore I said sure and we
did and he got a bunch of we had 40
people in this thing we had to do it was
Co so we had to do it remotely but we
had a pretty cool system to do it and so
um he had about 40 people people from
different universities from different
poly Technics from different um
corporations and other people who are
just interested in um you know students
and and people you know living good
lives and then that turned into a whole
bunch of people wanting calling us and
wanting to do things and that ended up I
came back out last year and we did some
more so you know in design you do need
finding you figure out what do people
really need and it it seemed to me that
lots of people in Singapore wanted um
wanted some help with the same problem
like what am I going to be when I grow
up or how do I figure out what my next
job should be or like I watched one of
your Tik Tok like two out of 15 people
are engaged and so 13 out of 15 people
don't like their job or get up on Monday
morning and go oh God I got to go to
work again yeah and and then I found out
about this streaming thing and the way
you guys run education and how people
get you know sort of tracked into this
stuff and I'm like well we we gota we
got to help here if people want it yeah
so uh and at the time that Mark was just
leaving uh the the the government I said
hey why don't we put this together so
and Mark's amazing he knows everybody
I'm just a I'm just the guy from
California with a little curriculum but
um so we put together the designing your
life Institute limited Singapore we're a
nonprofit We want to we're working with
uh Republic poly Technic we signed anou
with them they're going to teach
everybody you know at at RP designing
your life we want to work with every
Utes and universities and everybody but
mostly it's just it's just impact to
help
people design a life it's more livable
more resilient more you know just more
human right I mean I've always liked my
jobs I know you said what you said you
had 32 32 different jobs2 different jobs
right uh so you were doing a lot of
prototyping doing a lot of in my my
language we call it the school of hot
knocks yeah sure but but but you didn't
stay stuck right you kept moving trying
to find things that would work until you
find the thing that works a lot of
people get stuck yeah you know they get
get stuck in the first job or they get
stuck in in in like somebody told
them you know just do this make money
and and it's not it's not enough you
know because we're human and we need
more so um that's what we're trying to
do we're trying to help people and you
know design is fun like designing new
things is fun um I've always liked my
jobs I got to design the first laptops
at Apple I got Design Star Wars toys and
you know flying wings for for um Raiders
and I got to design electronic toilets
and you know Al so I've always felt that
like designs a really natural form of
creative expression right but it's
useful because it's it you know I'm also
a painter and an artist and stuff but I
do that because I love it not because I
think you know it's a great painting I
think it's a great painting maybe nobody
else does but you know when you do a
design and people use it like the iPhone
or something you know then you know
you've really hit it right because
you're solving a problem and so when we
can help people learn these tools so
they can design their own life I don't
do the design they do it right I just
show them how then they they feel they
get unstuck yeah they feel
hopeful and they feel like they've got
some some control you know about what
happens now I mean the world you can't
control the
world right world's great and things are
changing fast so you better have a
strategy you know to to to prototype and
be nimble I think otherwise you're just
going to get rolled over by you know Ai
and chat and everything else right so
you got to have a you got to have a
strategy and I think you know Design's a
pretty good strategy and we've got some
you know we did some research because
it's Stanford we did research it says
this works and um and I'm just super
excited to be in Singapore because I get
to be you know I I get to be in the Far
East I'm gonna I'm gonna um here this
will be our headquarters but I'm gonna
run a program in Bangkok I'm gonna run a
program in Hong Kong I'm gonna run a
program in uh in
Indonesia um so this is the Hub and the
institute's up and running and we're
just finding lots of people like
yourself and others who who feel like
it's time you know in Singapore for
people to have a little more a little
more control over what happens maybe and
a little more options more more more
hope because there's other data that
says you're one of the unhappiest
workforces in Asia and I
mean don't get me Singapore's amazing I
mean you know I'm older than Singapore
Singapore's not even 60 years old I'm
older than that but um and what's what's
here is incredible so that's that's you
know nobody can take you know not say
that but but this I particular the Next
Generation and stuff we got to get we
got to get into the creative economy we
can't just keep making you know can't
just be financing Logistics because the
world's complicated and it's moving fast
and you want to be inventive and
creative you want the next you know the
next Snapchat and the next whatever next
Tik Tok to be coming out of Singapore
not from someplace else so we've got to
get people thinking like
designers
interesting I'm I'm curious about when
you first because I I think whatever you
have come out with in terms of your um
designing your life and all and that is
really um it's almost like the blueprint
of your life but you kind of put it down
yeah it was exactly and and and when I
put it down I realized oh that's what I
did yeah exactly I know I mean I was
just doing it I wasn't so the the
interesting thing is that you have a lot
of interest yeah and a lot of times um
people would kind of say that sometimes
that I have so many interests to pursue
right right so for you how did you
pursue um that interest of design
besides you you said you were doing
sketching when you was really young yeah
sketching stuff I still draw right and
and was there interest in physics as
well well you know I you know when I was
growing up they were they were going to
the moon and they were you know the P
Mission rockets and stuff and that so I
thought wow I want to be I want to be an
Astron when you're little you know I
want to be an astronaut I want to be I
want to be a fighter pilot right um I
think I think what it is is like well
first of all I was you know I was kind
of a weird little kid you know I was
okay I was good at school but I but I
was always daydreaming you know and the
teach I was always you know sketching
and the teacher would goes pay attention
pay attention
yeah so but I think think I just I was
just I I think sometimes
people everybody's creative every
five-year-old sixy old seven-year-old
equally creative all over the world I
meet these kids that they they they can
turn a rock into a toy they can make a
stick into a rocket ship and then they
get into school and school starts
putting them down you know you know
don't Daydream don't don't you know
there's one answer was one answer to
everything art isn't important music
isn't important you can do that on the
side but that's not important and I just
was always kind of
rebellious um like I played the game but
I always had I always had my own you
know thing so I wasn't I I was a they
couldn't they couldn't pick on me too
much because I was a good student but
then I was also a bad student because I
was wandering around my high school
wasn't very good you know what we have
high school you know a little different
than your Sy but one you know the thing
you do just you know like 16 17 18 y
just my high school wasn't very good it
it was bad it was a public high school
but it wasn't very good so so my friend
Mark and I used to skip school and go to
the Boston Public Library because the
Boston Public Library like I mean like
like the libraries you have here massive
building not like some little tiny libr
it's massive Building 24 million books
right and it and it was beautiful and
and what do you do there we just hang
out and read books like what a bunch of
nerds right we're skipping school we're
not like smoking we're we're we skrip
school to go to the
library but my teachers were like well
you know he's a pretty good student so
you know I would get in trouble but not
too much trouble because I go to the
library right interesting so when you
were when you go to the library it's one
of these things that um where you
gravitate towards is your interest yeah
and the funny thing about interest my my
thinking about interest is that you
don't know where it comes from no it's
almost scattered around the world and
you you have some interest and you don't
know where it comes from could be from
nature could be nurture what is your
take on interest where did it come
from well you know my dad was an
engineer and he was pretty straight
straightforward guy and my mom you know
was a very smart woman but hadn't you
know didn't have a lot of Education and
she was to stay at home mom and so but
my parents were also like okay he likes
to draw and sketch we'll buy him some
you buy him some paints and as long as
he gets good grades we're fine so they
they they didn't encourage me but they
didn't discourage me right um and then
um you know I it's it's an interesting
thing I'm not a I'm I'm not a religious
person but I think stuff happens
sometimes and and I remember I was just
writing about this the other day I
remember this just disly so I'm about 16
years old R I'm in high school and I and
I and I didn't live in downtown Boston I
lived in a little suburb called
Burlington we would take the the tea
into the Boston to the library but we
had a little tiny library in our town
just a regular kind of tiny Library
remember walking into the library and
there's all these tables and it's just
books left out right random
books and all of a sudden I see this
book and I don't know what it is it's
like the book
seems you know I have we have an
exercise in our class where say go out
and see what wants see what object in
the world wants wants your attention I
walked over to this book and I'd never
read any philosophy or anything I was
kind I was in the chess club I was kind
of a nerd right and here's this book and
it's called the way of Zen by Alan Watts
and Alan Watts was a famous author I
didn't know at the time but I found out
l a famous author who kind of brought
Eastern ideas to the west and he he had
a radio show in in pal in C California
right was that out of Berkeley anyway he
was a famous writer so I see this book
way of Zen I wonder what's Zen what is
that I opened the book I read the whole
thing they they like threw me out of the
library you know when they were closing
up at night because I read the whole
thing and it was like wow you know like
because I was I grew up in you know a
traditional sort of Episcopal Church
Christian Church y you know there's a
God he doesn't like you you need to do
the you need to be good or you go to
hell and then I read this other thing
and it's like no no there the way that
can be followed is can is not the real
way life is an illusion suffering is the
cause of you know illusion causes
suffering like whoa that's that what's
your the first dip in Psychology first
dip into any kind of philosophy or wet
Eastern philosophy and then I was like
oh wait a minute there must be more and
then I started reading I started reading
an n and and you know and kamu and sart
and all these people and by the time I
got to college I was I was taking more
philosophy classes than I was taking
engineering classes
because I I realize I realize that you
the reason I like physics is physics
asks the big question like why is there
anything what is matter what is I like
art because art asks the other big
question what is beautiful yes how do we
how do we as humans experience Beauty
yeah and then these philosophical guys
are asking the question what's the
meaning of life is there God is you know
if there's not a god what about
reincarnation what what is your soul Y
and I had never thought of I mean even
though I went to I just went to church
and I read the books and I sang the
songs I didn't really think I think
right it I don't there must have been
like something in my prefrontal cortex
that just connected that day right and
it's like and it was just that book and
the book kind of glowed on the literally
kind of like I lots of books I walked
over to that one so what's that about
well maybe you know the UN I I think
this you know you know the concept of
flow you know when you're going to flow
like athletes yeah athletes go into the
zone or you're going to flow doing
something and time stands still yeah so
I think there's flow I I you know I call
it there super flow flow is available
anytime doesn't have to be athletic
doesn't have to be anything I like to
cook do you cook no I like to cook and
there's a you know I I took some classes
and there's a thing your Mison plas is
the French name for your preparation so
you make everything and then you cook
chop chop chop when I'm chopping
vegetables when I'm getting my you know
getting everything ready for the dinner
I kind of go into flow I love it but I
think you can go into I think you can be
in flow all the time if you're just
access that state of flow
right so it has to do with intention or
it has to do with being you know the the
Buddhist would say you know being in
tune with the universe or something so
I'm
like something about that book I was
supposed to read it and then that went
to another one and another one and
another one eventually you know I I
developed my own life view I'm I'm an
atheist I'm an
existentialist
um but I still think there's there's
like the meaning and purpose in the
world is there you just have now you if
you don't have a religion to build it
for you you got to build it yourself
right now interestingly my buddy Dave
who I write books with and created the
classes with he's a big thought leader
in the Christian Community and he's very
very you know into the Jesus thing M and
and and we're the best Partners I've
he's the best partner I've ever had
because we respect each other and he and
and I you know look that there's lots of
stuff in the universe we don't we can't
explain so you know we both Dave says we
both agree that there's mystery yes in
the universe he says you round down to
science I round up to God yeah yeah but
we both agree there's a bunch of things
that nobody can explain and so this idea
of going you know being in flow or being
in you know in tune with you know your
path I think that's it's a metaphor but
I think there's something real in that
and I think what I was doing my whole
life was just sort of unconsciously
finding yeah because it went you know
left and then it went right and then it
went up and then it went down so anybody
out there it's never a straight line
yeah it's never a straight line if
you're really following and it wasn't
even like I was following my heart
because I I I wasn't I was 16 I was just
a kid I you hadn't even even kissed a
girl yet I mean I was pretty nerdy but
one thing led to
another and I was curious enough to
pursue it yeah so my big thing is we got
to keep Kids Curious and we got to we
got to reawaken our own curiosity
because the world you know this world
comes at you all the time right and you
can just accept the default reality like
I guess I'll just you know just sort of
deal with it or you can go
towards it yeah towards the things you
want right and there's a there's a big
difference
between just accepting whatever happens
as if you had no you have no choice
right or having some intention to have
something happen you don't get what I
don't believe you get what you want all
the time or anything like that but but
when you and and and then when you get
into this idea like flow and other
things you realize well what is every
one of these these I I'm not religious
but I've studied I've read you know the
Quran the Bible the the new testament
old testament the you name it I've read
all you know the the the Diamond sutras
the the Hindu books the Buddhist
books they all
say a bunch of things they're different
but but some things in common like love
matters compassion yeah for other people
matters um that the that the way you
have you live a good life yeah is you
care about other people yeah and you
know now we have all these we have these
big research studies that say hey guess
what people who are more compassionate
are happier guess what people who have
good relationships live
longer so you know I mean I think
science is just repeating what kind of
culture has known for a long time that
if you if you try to live a good life be
a compassionate person think of other
people and what you can do for them
yeah you know it's it's better so that's
what I try to do so that that's
interesting because when we think about
like um religion and we think about like
um like for example Bible I'm a
Christian and um God uh Bible does talk
about things like um uh love compassion
Justice and all that right but they
don't really talk about this whole idea
of finding that job finding that passion
that you have no uh I haven't read the
other religious books but I don't think
they talk about that and they don't talk
about the exploration of trying to
figure out that because I believe that
actually there are some people who are
okay with a job and they do it out of
Duty and that's it and they are fine
like that absolutely absolutely but
Rebels like you and me can't live that
way and we need to explore something
yeah what like so when it's it's just
fascinating that actually when we think
about that then there is no real set of
ways where somebody can follow some kind
of a framework to find that to find that
path
of of discovering themselves right right
except through trial and error it's
that's the only way look they they built
you know when we were building the very
first notebook computers the first
laptops at Apple we built like 200
prototypes we didn't know what the hell
do and I know I I know the guys on the
iPhone team built like two or 300
prototypes of different versions of the
iPhone and then they showed it to Steve
Jobs three times and three times you
said not good enough do it again do it
again you know it's not it's not but
when it came together they knew it yeah
and when you're life comes together you
kind of feel it yeah and but you know
we're changing all the time so it's not
just like oh I found the thing I'm going
to do that for the rest of my life yeah
I mean I tell my students don't you hope
that when you're 40 you're doing
something that hasn't even been in Ed
yet in your 20s because you just want to
do the same thing over and over but you
know let me go my you know us is is is a
nation of immigrants my my parents on on
my on my mom's side my grandparents came
from Germany and my grandfather in a
couple of rounds but basically got the
family out of Germany in
1933 because 1933 is when Hitler was
elected Chancellor and he didn't think
that was going to work out so good
somehow or this guy with no education
didn't speak English whatever got him
and my mom his wife and my mom who's
been born in Germany out of Germany and
got him to
California and he took any job he could
get he he he worked at the sewage
Factory
shoveling stuff from one tank to another
right 50 cents a day 20 cents 25 cents a
day a dollar a day whatever my
grandmother who spoke no English she
took in laundry from the rich families
in the neighborhood just to support the
family
yeah but that was Noble it's Noble work
he he was make he brought the family to
safety he put a roof over their head his
kids went to school and got an education
that he never had y yeah my mom you know
sent me to Stanford and my daughter's
getting a PhD in Immunology UCSF so in
just a few Generations but but he still
had meaning in his life it just didn't
was his job was like make the family
safe yeah provide food and shelter but
but he had his church he had his
community of friends you know he had a
rich life and my grandmother did too um
but I mean I can't even imagine like
pulling myself out of of a country and
going to another country not speaking
the language and making it successful so
I have a lot of respect for people jobs
can be
Noble if it's it can't just be I'm
making money I'm making money for a good
reason right but nowadays you know we do
have Safety and Security we're pretty
high up in maso's hierarchy exactly and
so you know some something about the job
that maybe expresses my creativity or
expresses my ability to to make things
or design things yeah I think I think
everybody's looking for that and or if
they can't I mean all right fine if your
job's just for money then what do you do
on this what do you do for love right
what do you do to express yourself right
one of our big big projects in the in
the designing your life class is you
don't come up with one life you come up
with three completely different lives
what would you do if you did this this
or this three completely different lives
and in every one of those when people
are
brainstorming they'll say I wish I had a
little more creativity or a little more
like I wish I could wish I could you
know put a little more more of myself in
this life and you can you don't have to
become a designer right to do to design
your life you just have to learn the
tools but
um working um was n said I can deal with
almost any how if I know my why so I can
take any job doesn't matter how the job
is if I'm if I'm doing it for a good
reason yeah that job is Noble if I'm
just doing it for money or because I'm
trying to please my mom or my dad or my
my wife or my whatever my boss then
eventually it becomes you become one of
those disengaged workers because there's
no there's no purpose to
it so that's what that's what I
mean that's what you and I are both
trying to figure out is how to help
people get unstuck you don't need to be
stuck yeah if the job doesn't work you
can reframe it if that doesn't work you
can change it yeah and it's not like
everybody's GNA have some kind of super
cool job we're all going to be dive
instructors and Bali or something that's
not it most of the people do our
workshops they don't change their job
they just change their mind they change
their mindset that's the big that's the
big
thing if you want to if you want to if
you want to change your reality change
your mind right and and change how you
think about things because you can I
mean you know if you have a bad job it's
a bad job yeah if you got a toxic boss
get the hell out of there you don't you
don't deserve to be treated that way but
almost everybody can can turn something
you know that they've got into something
better if they just think about it
differently right and and we were all
creative except School beat it out of us
you know my schools were terrible they
didn't want me to be creative they
wanted me to shut up sit down do the
test get the right answer you know I
could do that but I was like well what
about I want to draw that tree you know
I want to go climb that tree and then
there was no you know like no shut up
and you know just you know I get I get
sent to the principal's office all the
time what do you think about this idea
because when I'm sharing about this
whole idea of finding um finding your
passion and Define to three different
things interest things that you can talk
about for hours and
hours we don't know where the fire comes
from but we just know that we can fan it
right so so that's from interest is one
thing strengths is the things that you
do naturally so for example some people
are numbers people some people are
non-numbers people lots of research says
play to your strengths play to your
strengths and the last one is values
things that um jobs um that bring out
let you live out your values right so I
have the value of Adventure somebody
else will have value for stability we
will choose very different jobs sure
right yeah some people have commented on
Tik Tok and all that and this is um this
is um very much um first world problem
where we're trying to find that perfect
job um that really satisfies that
highest rate that self-actualization M
lows and what do you think of that it's
do you think it's just a first world
thing where
or or do you think this is for everyone
well we were just talking about jobs
yeah we're talking about jobs I mean you
know there are places in the world where
there aren't any jobs it's just you're
you're a farmer you're a whatever and
you just do what you do yeah I mean
they're not in an industrialized economy
yeah but um two two things look even in
even in the most horrible situations you
can think of and I had a student who for
a summer went to um Jordan to to work in
the refugee camps on the border of Syria
right because there's a massive war
there there's a couple of million people
living in tents in the desert in the
most horrible
situation and even in that situation
women are making
jewelry and they're decorating
themselves and their and their family
and they're decorating their tents so
even when The Human Condition is really
really severe yeah we still we're still
humans so we still express ourselves
yeah with beauty or craft or something
so that tells me that that that Spirit
Never Dies no matter how bad the
situation now yeah is it a first word
problem well I got a job I don't like it
I want a better job um you know uh I
just over the weekend I just flew down
to Vietnam and I just I wanted to go to
Vietnam check it out I Haden been there
in 20 years it's amazing it's so built
up it's like you know I was in hoim Min
City it's like I was there it's like
Shenzhen it's like crazy Saturday to
Saturday through Monday oh I was there
like I was like Friday Saturday Sunday
oh okay I didn't know um and um you know
so there's lots of people who are really
working just working hard to just have
enough money to to to be okay
yeah but even they have a community or a
church or or something that's meaningful
to them so I I
think I think you want to keep the two
things really clear what do I do for
money yeah and what do I do for
expression Community love you know
whatever um it's a pretty modern idea
that those will be the same thing that
the job will be both things yeah and
companies aren't really set up for
meaning and purpose they're set up for
you know making money and delivering
profit and stuff but you can but that
does that's okay because it you know the
the meaning and purpose comes from you
you're not waiting for your boss to give
it to you you're not waiting for your
job to give it to you so you can do it
yourself and you know I you know I I
teach a Stanford and those kids are you
know what one thing is 70% of Stanford
kids are on some kind of financial aid
it's not like it's a rich kid School
everybody's paying most kids are being
you know subsidized yeah but we also
because we teach our class is taught in
a lot of different places I work with a
professor and she's in the in the
University of California system which is
kind of kind of like your polytechnics
it's it's that kind of system and her
her school is in Compton California you
know Compton the you know the black it
and her kids her students are 20% of her
students are below the poverty line 20%
of 80% of her students are
underrepresented minorities first
generation to go to college so here kids
are really you know they're gritty and
they're just trying to get out of the
the economic
situation and her research says her
students do better than than mine on on
like grit scale open you know growth
mindset all the stuff she measures she's
a psychology professor and our theory is
well don't even have a structure they're
just trying to get anything yeah and you
give them a little structure
particularly ours which is creative and
allows them to design and to iterate and
iterate and they just go they take off
they go crazy with it so I don't think
you have to be privileged or educated or
you know that it's necessarily a first
world
problem now I mean if you're in a
refugee camp in you know in Syria or
you're in a you know you've had a
natural disaster you know earthquake in
Turkey you go back to then you go back
to it's safety security we need water we
need food um but even there being a
clever designer yeah is helpful right
because you need to Design Systems to
make sure that you know you got place to
live and everything so uh to me the the
design mindset isn't just it's a very
practical mindset because because
designers like when the situation
changes designers are like great let's
let's come up with a new idea yeah is a
lot of people when the situation changes
they're like oh God now what are we
going to do you know like designers like
most people see something that's new or
different and they're like ah I don't
know about that yeah designers see
something new or different they go hey
what's that you know like because
they're just curious people yeah and I
think when you when you get your
curiosity turned on again the world's a
pretty interesting place and then the
chance of walking into a library and
seeing a book that's for some reason or
other that book seems to want you or
walking in the street and you meet
somebody and then all of a sudden I mean
how many times have you had a
conversation just somebody randomly and
then you discover wow we like there's so
many things we have in common or you're
standing in line getting a coffee yeah
and you start talking to somebody and
all of a sudden you got a job offer you
know that shows up I just think I think
if you if you nothing else if you
approach the world with
curiosity and what you know what uh some
people call a growth mindset
Angel
uh she's Stanford um was Angela
Duckworth and then there's um the other
one with growth mindset anyway if you if
you approach the world with a growth
mindset and a little
curiosity you know you find people who
want to help you you find interesting a
book jumps off the shelf and you need to
read it and I don't know don't you have
that experience all the time yeah so
when I when I think about this idea of
first W or not um I I do feel that uh
even in the most uh difficult situations
as let's say all of us for Farmers we go
back to many many years um you would see
something that I don't see based on just
how you wired yeah and you will see
something that is curious to you yeah
but hell boring to me right right and
I'll see something that's curious for me
but hell boring to you so then the
expression comes you might and as a
farmer you might say Hey you know we got
this thing I got this plow behind the
horse but I I kind of bent it a little
different and now it's working better
and I'm like oh that's awesome yeah and
then I'm like I found this way to like
not have a horse it's called a steam
engine you want to try that but but no
that I mean so the expression can be
anywhere and because human diversity is
it's so
kaleidoscopic that whatever so what
you're saying is that as long as you get
in tune and fire up that Curiosity it
guides you to where you should go and
for whatever that reason would be life
will be better for not only yourself
because you're living out that
expression but also for the people
around because you you make it better
right but here one other thing this this
a really really interesting piece of of
data from a psychology experiment um
some psychologists are trying to figure
out like some people say hey I don't
know I'm really lucky and good stuff
happens to me and other people are like
no nothing ever happens to me so they
wanted to figure it out so they had
people fill out a form are you lucky
0123 no I'm not lucky nothing ever 8910
I'm really lucky I don't know why good
stuff happens to me right so that was
the thing and then they had him read a
newspaper and you know that like in a
psych experiment there's always a trick
right so they had them read the
newspaper and the goal was count the
number of headlines or count the number
of photographs in this newspaper so
let's say it was like a Strait's times
you know it's 20 pages and they count it
but what they didn't tell him and said
it was a fake newspaper and buried
inside some of the Articles was a little
piece of text that said hey if you read
this the experiment's over collect an
extra
$100 right they were getting paid 100
bucks for the experiment so what
happened the people who said I'm not
lucky they did the job they got the
right answer 34 or whatever it was and
they said thank you much here's your
$100 the people who said they were very
lucky eight nine or 10 80% of the time
found the little extra piece of text and
went hey I'm done awesome I got $200
yeah and what they concluded is some
people are just like tunnel vision just
get the job done yeah and they go
through life that way and other people
are the kind of people who go you know
Starbucks hey that's you know that's
kind I like I like your jacket where'd
you get that they they just they get the
job done too they got the right answer
36 but they but they they they their
peripheral Visions open they're they're
open to the possibility that something
will show up yeah and so it's not that
they're lucky or not lucky it's just
that they're not they're not shut down
so when I talk about curiosity it's that
way it's
like I don't know where the next good
idea is going to come from I didn't know
Dave Evans my buddy was going to come
over and say hey do you want to do a
class for students in 2007 I didn't know
that the provos was going to go this one
of one of your students is is an aid in
the provos office she says it's the best
class she's ever taken at Stanford come
talk to me it's like none of this stuff
was planned yeah but but we were
open we set up the possibility and we
were open to see what would happen could
it just been that nobody liked the class
and we just we stopped it and we did
something else I mean I've you know I
mean Design's inherently a sort of
optimistic worldview like you're always
trying to make the next sign better y
I've worked on a couple things that
didn't come out very good
well we didn't we tried but it just
didn't you know whatever reason it
didn't come out very good but boy when
you when you you know when you get just
the right number of things
together go back and look at the
original iPhone it's about this big it's
like a little bar soap it could barely
do
anything except it could do everything
together and there was something magic
about that and now you know off the
charts what you can do but but I have I
have the original iPhone because I got
one at the store I got I got one the
store that Steve Jobs used to go to in
paloalto um and uh you know and it was
pretty cool but now when you look at it
you go that's that's just not it's not
even a big deal um so so I think that
the experiment of like what makes people
lucky is just that they are open yeah
and and then there's maybe there's you
know if you if you're um if you have a
spiritual tradition you believe well
maybe God has a plan and I just need to
see it yeah right or if you're you know
if you're Buddhist is like well I just I
don't want to fall into the illusion of
the world I want to see the true path or
if you're like me it's like well I don't
know if any of that's true but I do have
the experience of flow and other things
that you know seem seem to move me
towards stuff that's more productive or
certainly more
more um connected with people so Harvard
has been running this the longest Lo
longitudinal study of adult you know
happiness and development started with a
class of Harvard 1936 or something and
they studied and all those guys are dead
now they're studying their families and
their kids and stuff Robert waldinger
has a big Ted Talk on this is one of the
top TED Talks now and it's like what's
what predicts longevity and what
predicts you saying my life is
Meaningful turns
out all the things they they correlated
it's it's relationships it's love yeah
when people have strong relationships
and strong communities and people that
they love and people that they do things
for that aren't themselves particularly
The Compassion idea right in all the all
the Traditions they live longer they are
healthier and they they report their
lives as pretty good and then the people
who you know for for whatever reason
maybe because childhood or parents or
school or something just got on such a
narrow path that they lost connection
you know to themselves and to
others um you know those are the people
we got to help the number one the number
one thing in in you in older community
in the US is loneliness when people get
older they you know they withdraw and
they don't have as many friends and and
now because families don't live together
you know the parents don't have they're
not connected with their kids and stuff
so um we got to figure out you know on
in in Singapore you're going to be a
super aging Society by 2026 I'm told
where the ratio of young to old flips so
we got to we got to do something for
people to make sure they stay connected
they stay engaged look at all these
smart older people they know they know
tons of stuff it's not just the genzies
and you know Millennials like these
people have been the people who are
60 on this island built this place they
were they were one you know in 1963 or
65 so there's a lot of history and
knowledge and just texture to that so we
we got to we got to find my last slide
in the whole designing your life thing
is like let's just all be more human
because this is based on what we used to
call human- centered design call Design
thinking now but it's like it's the same
thing it's
like when when when I was a kid and I
ran upstairs to K Bradley and I said I
want to do you know science and
art and she said No it's it's go down
the hall it's science and art and
psychology and anthropology where did we
come from as a species who are we
psychologically nowadays I would throw
in you know sociology too because we got
to look at all the different cultures
you know Singapore is amazing at all
these different cultures living together
we can't just think of ourselves we got
to think of the whole Community how does
a community
Thrive um how do we how do we make sure
we respect the wisdom of each of the
communities that's out there so we don't
just come in and tell them what to do as
a designer I want to work with
you know each individual but also make
sure that we respect the communities
that you know that that come together um
and Singapore's you know Singapore is
amazing but it's also
small you have less than six million
people here there's more than eight
million people where I come from just in
the Bay Area you know San Francisco San
Jose and the whole thing yeah and so you
know maybe we could maybe Mark Mark
thinks we can start a national movement
and we can get everybody thinking like a
designer I don't know but if we can get
20% of the people thinking like a
designer
then we'll we'll we'll change it and you
know the talent and and the creativity
around here is just off the chart so we
just gota just you just got to unlock it
right so if you were to just share with
me in terms of this whole um design your
life right um it is not just about work
what are the main pillars that you you
feel that these are things to explore
yeah yeah so mostly it's it's it's it's
about changing your mindset so number
one mindset you keep talking about
curiosity okay number two
mindset radical
collaboration the ansers in the world
with people you can't you can't sit on
your in your chair and think up you know
what do you want to do you got to go out
and talk to people right curiosity route
similar to coaching when yeah the as a
coach we believe that the client has the
answer yeah but the client won't open
that door until the coach ask the right
question exactly exactly and you got you
got to and you got to set up those
collaborations to challenge you to get
you off your off your you know if you
could figure it out You' have figured it
out by now so get out of your seat and
go talk to people right so clear R
collaboration then reframing reframing
is this idea in design where you're like
somebody says well you know I want you
to design a new coffee cup and I go okay
but you know that's been done before
let's let's redesign the whole coffee
experience you know let's let's frame
the problem let's make it more
interesting so learning how to reframe
problems because people get stuck and
they got the problem and I said look
look let's let's change the problem
you're probably working on the wrong
thing anyway so radical collaboration
reframing and then um what we call it
biased action like what are you
analyzing it's the future you don't have
any data exactly just do it let's just
go do some stuff and what by doing
things we'll learn because the last one
is prototyping you know by taking action
and trying something talking to somebody
doing a little tiny you know
engagement um as a woman I was working
with and she had done you know one of
these Odyssey plans and one of her
things was she maybe wanted to go back
to school get a degree she wanted to
help kids so she was going to get a
degree in early childhood education I
she was in her late 40s she thought yeah
I don't know going back to school the
students will probably be uncomfortable
with me and I'm not yeah I'm too old I
said listen here's the deal and her name
was an I said listen what do you're down
to the Stanford bookstore
this is this is this is by the way this
will be this will be viral everybody can
do this go down to the Stanford
bookstore you get the red t-shirt the
cardinal red t-shirt with the big black
letters white stampfer okay put that on
you can go into any class on the campus
nobody will
know so I sent her to a big lecture
class I sent her to a smaller class and
she came back and she said you know I
thought I'd feel out of place but I felt
great my body was on fire and I started
talking to the students and they were
like wow you're coming back to school
that's awesome
they weren't like they weren't you
know uh you know disrespecting me in any
way she said so I set up all these
prototype conversations with students
one conver one way to protot something
just go talk to people yeah and then I
and then I talk to the professor and I'm
going to his office hour like I think
school would be awesome I said see you
have to have the felt experience some
you got to try it right try it don't
just be in your head try it yeah and I
mean what did it cost her 25 bucks for a
t-shirt you know and I gave her the
courage to go do it I gave her I
challenged her theage I I I bet you both
agree with me 99% of my time when I'm
coaching or in office hours all I'm
doing is giveing permission yeah they
know what they want to try yeah they
just don't know if they they should try
I go you you should try that go for it
and then and like the Overflow of
confidence yeah somehow yeah somehow I
can give them a little confidence that
they didn't have themselves and I just
give permission and they come back every
single time and they say wow it was
amazing you know I thought nobody would
talk to me but I had this I I set this
thing up 30 minutes I'll buy you the cup
of coffee just want to chat with you and
we ended up talking for an hour and they
gave me two other people to talk to and
I'm on this path now and it's like you
know the world is I think the world is
mostly a positive place and most people
will talk to you yeah um there's a
science fiction writer William Gibson
and he said the future's already here
it's just unevenly distributed right so
like if I wanted to learn about
podcasting and I'd never done it before
and I talked to you well you've been
doing it for a long time so that's like
time travel I'm traveling into the
future my future to a guys already been
doing it for like five
years wow that's amazing like and
there's someone on the planet somewhere
that's already doing what you want to do
yeah you just need to meet them talk to
them buy them a cup of coffee and it's
time travel literally you are
experiencing what it would be like to be
you in the future if you meet these
people and there's this thing we call
narrative resonance
you tell your story and if something
rings in me like I start to feel excited
then maybe your story and my maybe
there's something in your path that
might be my path right yeah and
sometimes I talk to people and it's
interesting but I'm like
no that was good for you but it's not
good for me so it's like if you have two
tuning forks and you hit one and the
other one starts ringing yeah the
resonates you'll know you'll know if the
story resonates now a lot of people like
when we first started talking to him I
said how do you feel they go I don't
feel anything yeah you remember this a
lot people are numb so we just working
so hard or working so they're so burned
out that they're just numb the funny
thing about that is that I just had a
conversation about that and what we
might see as indifference and
non-challenged they might see as oh I'm
just Zen yeah and I don't know what to
make out of it whether or not that
really Zen and very stoic or is it just
that they're just I I don't want to
fight for anything yeah and it's and
it's it's hard to know yeah because they
don't know exactly so they can hide
sometimes sometimes that that Zen thing
is really just dis it's not just
disengagement it's like I'm just not
playing anymore exactly I'm off the
field yeah yeah and so a lot of times
when I ask my students how do you feel
they'll tell me a bunch of stuff and
then I'll say none of those were
feelings tell me how you feel and they
go I don't really know I hav you know I
haven't checked in with myself in so
long I don't know I just keep working
working working working working and I'm
like okay well the first thing we got to
do
is you know get past numb yeah to like
because everybody feels something yeah
um if it's truly I have meditated and
found a peaceful place that's one thing
it's just it's just that's great but R
that's great that's awesome but if most
of the time it's just you know I'm so
burned out I don't even know what I
think anymore so so they do need
some just a little bit of work on like
just getting back in tou tou with their
feelings yeah so it's almost the idea
where the um Duty for so many different
parties in your life just take
over whatever you wanted in the first
place yeah yeah and then and then and
then it's all these voices in your head
telling you what you should do and the
duty and and and you
know you want to be a good son you want
to be a good father you want to be a
good you know uh worker you want to be a
good sister and that's
great but if you burn yourself out
you're not going to be any good at any
of those things so you you you at some
it's not it's not being selfish it's
just being aware of yourself because if
you if you actually are so numb that
stuff comes at you and it's just like
you know just the deflector Shields are
at 100% yeah and I'm just deflecting
everything then you'll miss it when your
kid needs a hug or you'll miss it when
your wife wants you know needs needs
attention or when something important is
happening at work and you didn't you
didn't know that employee was you know
struggling yeah um but it's hard because
everybody's so busy you know we're all
so so you know stressed out
um but I would even I mean I when I talk
to corporations I say look here's the
deal you're not getting uh you're not
getting 100% out of people because
they're disengaged yeah and if you want
you want to get more out of them you
can't just you know just can't just keep
whipping the horse harder um people want
to have a life with a good job in it and
if you just want to talk about the job
and how to optimize me for your
performance y um I'll I'll I'll give you
50% because that's much as I got but if
you want to talk about how I could have
you know how how my life and my job work
together how we can you know then I you
know when my students do startups they
work 100 hours a week they all work
everybody says no the genz won't work
hard they'll work their asses off yeah
if they believe in the job exactly and
it doesn't have to be their their
startup it can be any any job I can make
any job you're just doing spreadsheets
for the partner to show at the meetings
like if I'm just a spreadsheet monkey
I'm disengaged if you tell me how my
analysis is going to change the strategy
I'm
engaged yeah but you can't you got to
talk to me like I'm I'm a I'm a person
not a unit of you know I'm not a machine
cranking out spreadsheets yeah what is
what is um what I'm so grateful about
that that this whole insute is coming to
Singapore is because when I think about
the the entire era of like Civilization
and some
parts where the greatest wealth was done
like in the first part was all about
farmlands and spices and wheat and
everything right it's all about
farmlands right it's all about produce
from the farm produce from the ground
and then you harvesting and all that
then after I went to Industrial Age It's
All About normal Farmland about
factories right and Singapore was poised
to be the best Factory because we were
English speaking we were compliant and
we were hardworking so that was our era
where we we went on from real factory
factories where it's like bulky items to
now it's like semic conductors and all
that but with s factories and we're
moving away and the last one I think now
is the idea of the the last you know
last part would be for wealth is the
founder
mindset so to move from Farmland to
factories to Founders and the only way
Founders come about is people who are
dissatisfied with something right and
and they just have to fix it and they
want to try something so bringing that
Curiosity into this society and
hopefully people get turned on then says
that okay k i maybe I can actually try
something and I we give them that
permission to try out something and
hopefully that fat Founders mindset
builds that Innovation to a point where
they can bring Singapore for the next
100 years absolutely and and you you
have to do it because it's too expensive
to build things here anymore and you got
so you got you got to go to the next
level resource and and people are the
resource and founder that founder
mindset changes everything it changes
just industry and and technology and
stuff it can change the Arts it can
change theater it can change I mean you
name it the the people who are
passionate about helping kids start a
school the people are passionate about
music start a you know a performance
yeah um thing um so it's
like you have to and you have to get
there
because you don't have yeah it's
resources you don't have land you don't
have that stuff you you have people and
um and and you only have a few people
yeah you know there's um 1.6 billion
people across the water over there
another couple billion people over in
India and in Malaysia and Indonesia so
you got to be small you got to be
Scrappy exactly and you got to be
creative yeah so my personal belief is
that um why I'm pushing also this whole
idea of passion and trying to find that
and trying to find that that Spock
inside yeah right is because you were
built for something you were built for
very unique piece of the puzzle and if
you don't have that creativity or that
Curiosity to open it up and try yeah um
the will is the dock of Poli well and we
need and we need the founders the
entrepreneurs we need the creators
because you know as as technology
accelerates and stuff a lot of the
simple jobs will just get automated so a
lot of things are just you know
transactional things um and um you know
a lot a lot of my
students you know think that way way
that you know well you know we're in
Silicon Valley so it's easier to think
like a you know think like a founder or
something but the ones who are
successful like you said the ones who
are kind
of they're often my most difficult
students yeah because they don't want to
do my assignment they want to do
something else want to do want to do
something else but they're the ones who
can't not I I I have a thing about
entrepreneurs if if if if you just think
you want to be an entrepreneur that's
fine but you probably won't succeed but
the ones because it's hard I've done it
couple times it's really hard like the
best day of my life was you know in a
company which we we've had products it's
a success and the worst day of my life
was you know in in in another startup
where I just had to tell everybody we're
going home because yeah we don't have
any money and it's all over so it's hard
it's not an easy life not everybody ends
up Mark Zuckerberg or you know Yan musk
right but the people who can't not do it
they see the need and they go nobody's
doing this you have to I have to do it
um and and it's not even that they're
trying to make a lot of money they're
just trying to solve a problem and it's
bugging them so much that they're
willing to quit their job I mean look
eight out of 10 nine out of 10 startups
fail so it's not a good bet bet it's not
a good bet but I never met an
entrepreneur who didn't think he was in
the one
yeah and if you don't think you're in
the one you can't even get started
exactly yeah um so yeah no I think and
we got to build that mindset in
Singapore and part of that is we got to
get rid of this notion that
failure is you know somehow bad or wrong
or embarrassing or you can't fail
because if you can't fail you can't try
yes to be an entrepreneur if nine out of
10 startups fail and I mean I don't know
anybody who knows how to just do the
good ones so you got to do them all yeah
and you know there's a there's a an
attitude you know that I run into people
here that are really kind of a fear of
failure yeah and you know it's sort of
Social and it's got It's got some social
construct and some other constructs to
it um and we got we got to work on that
right we got to give people the the
courage to try stuff because it's gonna
fail I mean most entrepreneurs aren't
successful till their second or third
company anyway many yeah for me it's
many right so so you you know you you
you the and and and the thing that
overcomes your fear of
failure curiosity and I got got to do
this idea I just got to see if it works
not not that I know it's going to work I
just got to see if it's going to work I
can't not do this yeah those are the
ones that I that I'll bet on every time
and the ones that just want to do a
startup because they want to do a
startup almost never persist exactly
yeah
agree thank you so much bill for for
this um I really hope that this um your
Institute will be able to really help
Singapore singaporeans to be able to
have that mindset of curiosity open up
something that's inside there and make
those flowers
you know it's and it's it's one person
at a time student by student that's our
mission um it's you can find it online
at designing your life. Institute
designing your life. Institute and um
we're brand new but we're
Scrappy and I can't not do this because
it seems like this is the place so and
this is the place that I think's going
to set the trend for all of Southeast
Asia and Asia because this is this is
the one place now
you know things have changed in Hong
Kong and China and other places but this
is the one place now where um you got
the talent yeah you got an
entrepreneurial Spirit getting started
and if we can just teach people how to
think like a designer or just think
think with this mindset uh you
anything's possible
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