TRANSCRIPT

Becoming a Clinical Sexologist - Dr Martha Tara Lee (Eros Coaching) | The CJH Podcast EP9

*Captions are taken directly from YouTube and may not be 100% accurate

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we have Dr Martha Lee here she is a relationship counselor clinical sexologist doctorate in human sexuality by The Institute for advanced study of human sexual sexuality United States conducts a relationship and sexuality counseling and coaching for more than 14 years she's recognized one of the top 50 inspiring women under 40 by herwell magazine appointed residence exologists for Singapore Cancer Society and an author of four books she's published love sex and everything in between orgasmic yoga from Princess to Queen heartbreaks hotgasms everything in between oh that's the okay and uninhibited so Dr Martin Lee welcome thank you I am very curious this is one topic that I think for singaporeans is a little bit um on the side so I'm I'm curious about performance and I'm also curious though a passion share with us how you started like how did was this the first job that you wanted since young and that's why you came and then started all these things or how did it start uh it definitely wasn't my first job I I had been told that I was good in English and communication so I studied mass communications and then I started doing PR marketing advertising so like went into qualcomms at one point I was I was a secretary at one point and um um I just got tired of working and helping companies corporates I thought something more meaningful would be to help individuals so at the crossroads of my life after my first divorce I I really dug indeed to ask myself what kind of a legacy I want to leave and I realized that I I wanted to impact people's lives and as a woman one of the things that we value much more than um a career is our personal life so I thought it would be so amazing if I could help people in their personal lives but specifically um their sex lives because this this was something that was not really talked about at all positively in Singapore you often just hear about it Rising sdia is teenage pregnancy unwanted abortions and whatnot but we don't really hear about it talked about in like how beautiful wonderful amazing sacred uh sex is and can be uh so also I had that Fascination now with sex for a very long time and then eventually I went and got my doctorate came back started my practice uh in 2009 so next next so yeah it's going to be 15 years soon so help us understand a little bit you were good in maths columns you did all these things personally for me I did 32 different jobs and businesses right so just wondering and I call that the Wilderness personally for you uh where what what Wilderness did you go into um when it comes to stumbling onto this whole thing because yes uh secretary and all that to this interest in it and actually taking a start further study and all that and where was that shifting point okay so I I was in cop comms and I just got tired of it after eight years then I um I wanted to do something meaningful to help people doing volunteer World non-profit stuff so I started a non-profit which closed down after a year just ran out of funds and also it was really difficult managing volunteers so I guess the the first switch is leaving the corporate world for non-profit and then from non-profit wanting to start my own thing and um yes I was very clear I wanted to help people but um like in what area specifically then it was I knew I wanted to help people in sexuality but I didn't have the qualifications so so yeah so I would say that that would be like the second big switch in my life right so usually if somebody goes into something they've already tried it out here and there so then um I understand that you were counselor last night so yes you while you're doing cop coms then doing a non-profit and whether the counseling thing came about yeah yeah so I forgot to mention that um so I was doing cupcons then my marriage broke down um and I I wasn't allowed to do volunteer work then so I decided to do volunteer work during that time I didn't I didn't go for counseling but I was told that I should um so so I thought it would be a great thing to be able to help people in the area of supporting them through a difficult time such as a divorce so I actually applied for and became a telephone helpline nurse that's when I got some basic counseling training and that was also when I realized that I was actually extremely good at it I I didn't even realize that I would be good at it but when I started this this like I just became a different person the the empathy came forth and I was just parking or putting myself aside and focusing on the person that I wanted to help so that was when I realized that I had this ability to support people in a in a meaningful way yeah so that's when the counseling I was like what in counseling and I was like okay um sex counseling if there's such a thing uh would be what I want to focus on right so you actually applied so you applied to be a telephone counselor telephone helpline telephone so as a helpliner you you can uh you're not really um you don't have you don't have okay so basically in order to do for them okay so basically was aware um so I applied and I went for the training uh for so for them help liners you don't have to have a degree in counseling but the face-to-face counselors they do so so you learn counseling skills and you are counseling but you are not a counselor yeah so that's where the help liner comes in and the people who actually call up this helpline um what are called demographics are they young yeah so

um most of them were women calling in um with different kinds of challenges in their lives and the challenge can be anything yeah well mostly around the relationship right okay so was that the so that was the first time you actually counseled somebody yeah yeah and um so that was the aware training and then I also went and got a certificate in counseling so that that helped a lot to cement the skills right how long was that um helpline before you actually decided to let's go into something for more formal so that I can upskill myself yeah so I was already doing the helpline um for three years um so while I was doing that helpline or towards the till end of it then that's when I already started my doctorate training

and was there any because usually when it comes to this kind of thing people is either you have a validation for yourself that people have you feel that I'm good in this that's why I want to carry on because there's a sum of money you need to pay just to get a doctorate in all that was that validation internal or was it external it may be the people that hurt you it's like hey well you're very good feedback from clients where did the validation come from they gave you that courage to go for yeah so when I was doing the helpline training I wasn't sure whether I would be a good helpliner and uh then we we then I was on the helpline and I I started and that's when I realized you know actually working with real people that I was good at it and I and and I was being supervised anyway so that's where the validation came from and um I realized that I was really enjoying it and really making an impact because I could I could just you know you can just even though it was through the phone I could just sense that it made a difference to them right so validation came from the clients themselves that they call in and also from your supervisor what did your supervisor actually share with you thank you I didn't really say but you can I can I can just tell and then later I I asked and they admitted they were not sure about me um there was surprise and I was also surprised so yeah to be fair uh if I can be surprised with myself then of course um in it's natural that they also didn't know yeah yeah so that's the interesting thing about strengths and our unique talents sometimes we think that is actually very normal I don't even think it's a strength I wouldn't think it's something that's very big or like what you mentioned that we don't really know that that is something special that we have some unique superpower that we have if you were to look back in your life while knowing that hey actually you were good in this when you were younger was there any kind of validation that you were actually good at talking to people natural you put people at ease I don't think I'm good at talking with people I just think that I have a lot of I I have basically I'm an empath so I can feel what people are feeling so growing up I didn't I didn't even think it was a superpower I felt it was more like a like a hindrance because I was feeling so much all the time I was overwhelmed I was I was I was constantly feeling um agitated and scared and angry and I was feeling all kinds of emotions I didn't know what was going on and so I either would um have outbursts or I would just shut down because I didn't know how to deal with my own emotions teenage angs and also what I was absorbing from people but when I started to be on the helpline helping people that's when I realized that um that was now being channeled to doing something good to better understand them get under their skin be able to put myself in their shoes and then from there be able to help them so I I wasn't really asked to be in that position um until when I was in that role even like when you're talking with friends it's very different because a lot of times you just listen and then you just have like a reaction but now when I went into the help liner role then it was not really about um what I think but how I can be helpful to them so so instead of reacting you are responding and because it's like a stranger so you you are a bit removed from giving information or education or like giving them resources depending on what they need right so since young you thought it was actually something negative because you felt so much from everybody and there was a unique thing that and that you had and nobody told you that this was your special gift of course not um I think I don't think people people back then know how to handle uh kids who are like super sensitive we were we would just be like difficulties or irritable or like um so I couldn't articulate what I was going through and how I was feeling yeah um and also being on the helpline didn't mean that it was easy for me either so along the way I learned a lot of other tools on how to uh let go of emotions that I absorb so like breathing techniques grounding techniques releasing techniques so I would say it also took me a few years to become more more confident in regulating what I was absorbing and and not not letting what was happening to other people affect me so when you're doing this and for three years um being an empath and being able to feel everybody that was actually quite negative I'm assuming that people who called you were not in the best state of mind so they were either negative depressed or they were going through something very difficult so the emotions that you usually get from a help help line is this all negative right when you learned all these techniques and all that did it really help yes they helped however at first because I was still learning you learn as you're going through it so I was noticing that for every helpline shift I was actually bringing a lot of snacks so that I can eat between and uh I think this is one way that councilors cope because they feel upset or deep like affected so they also want to fill themselves up so there are people who feels out with food so I was I noticed I was doing that and I was making a conscious effort to stop but food helped you to break the emotional line to yeah that was that was one way I coped right in the beginning okay um yeah do you feel all counselors actually go through this that they need to manage this emotion yeah I think we just manage in different ways um work in nature or exercise or food or um but there are many many other techniques which which I've learned over the years that um I use regularly I use daily helps me okay okay so share with me then after three years you go for your doctorate and there was um States yeah right and then after that um you did a doctor in um sexuality yes you were a counselor uh was it that a lot of people kept asking you about that topic that's why you were so interested in getting a doctorate for that because you could also get a doctorate just for just being a counselor no no I wanted to specialize in helping people around sexuality so I was very clear that in order to do that I needed to have the qualifications um and I didn't want anybody doubting my um my expertise so yeah I I so I went and got this doctorate okay was that during the three years that you were there um the helpline or no I think I started maybe the last six months while I was doing the helpline right so last six months then you realized that if I want to specialize because I know that I I have I'm in the flow and I'm helping people when I'm helping people with the phone I feel that okay yeah this is something I think I can do well but when you wanted to measure onto one thing only the last six months then you realize hey maybe I checked that out what happened do you win search online yeah no I I pretty much decided I knew what I wanted to do I wanted to be a sex counselor so it took a while for the paperwork everything so so yeah it just coincided that when my studies begin then um it became too much then eventually I stopped the helpline perfect so you knew around six months before no no um I was still doing the helpline then I started my studies then I stopped the headline so the question is um how do you um where did the interests of sexuality come from was it during the helpline where all the people kept asking you questions on that or was it even before that when you were young no no people were not asking me about sex on the helpline um during that time when I was trying to decide oh I'm really good at this yeah and then I saw all these um articles uh in the papers the same articles that sparked aware to do the sex act program which led to the aware Saga um I saw all these articles and I just had this I couldn't sleep and I just had this anger come forth about like why we don't talk about sex in meaningful ways so that's when I decided I'm going to do something about it and that's when I wondered whether there are courses where I can specialize in sexuality and then I did a lot of research and then I decided that um that I'm going to do this dog treat yeah interesting so I started so the so the same articles that caused The Saga was the same articles that led to me wanting to be a sexologist so interesting it sounds that the and it's actually because of the Saga and because of the trauma from The Saga and witnessing The Saga um that that made me realize that um sex is um so politically charged um in Singapore that um I have I had to be very careful um how I did things I had to do things in a very professional way because of the climate of Singapore

what about the articles that you felt that I think this is the of all the things in counseling this is the one because no I was always already curious about sex like I mentioned and I was always already thinking it's a very important part of a relationship so that belief plus the reality which is like it's not talked about in positive ways it's always talked about negative ways made me realize that there is a gap with what is available in Singapore about anybody talking about the positive ways and there was none back then and um back then I think last and now uh every time they talk about sex in magazines it was always tips and tricks and techniques you know snare demand and this and that and it's like it sounds also very cliche and frivolous and there was nothing really um uh meaningful about it so that's why I say it's either sleazy or like just to sell papers or it's frowned upon and there's nothing in between so that was that was when I said like I got angry and I was like something needs to be done some somebody needs to do something we need to have alternative messages around it yeah so so yeah when I anyway when I came back started my practice I um was very fortunate um to be featured in the media and um then I realized that there were certain things that there was the media wouldn't publish and there was um people don't know this but because I studied the media so I know that there's some um censorship going on people don't know much about this kind of censorship but anyway um so that's how I started to make my own YouTube videos and now I have like thousand three videos on YouTube but it actually um they they didn't they didn't start off like perfect or anything but I just I just I just thought like for anybody who can't afford to see me at least that they have some resources um to support them I also had clients who come in and they would be angry coming in they would be very hostile they would have a lot of difficulties opening up to me but when I started to make these videos a lot of them would watch these videos get a sense of who I am and the style and what to expect during this session so so I did notice that the sessions were much much easier people were much more prepared to open up and actually have a productive session as opposed to starting off like really hostile so I don't get all these hostile people coming in anymore because I know they did their research they watched the videos they looked me up and if this is what it takes for people to be comfortable so then that's good so that's the reason why I always put myself out there on media so that more people know that there are people like me who have these sort of services we we do um study this and we can support them so that they they know that that's um there are professionals like us that can support them translate is linked back to you being an empath where the videos help you to build that bridge of connection with you first before they even come yeah I think it's very important because um and I can understand this a lot of them feel that uh it's a very sensitive subject it's a very personal subject they wouldn't want to open up the stranger so how can I make people more comfortable with me if they don't know who I am they don't know what I stand for so yeah these videos if you know they help them so then I do that okay

there were actually two parts you were already interested in sex and um this whole topic and The Saga or all the papers and all that about the way I know that just basically was a Tipping Point for you to say that somebody needs to stand in that Gap no I was really studying sex uh I was really studying before the Saga happening before Saga happened but the the fact that the Saga happened uh made me realize how bad it can be right right how bad it can be in a place like Singapore and that I have to be very mindful okay about the approach um basically to do it in a very professional way um I think over the years it's been next year will be 15 years so I think I I kind of lightened up a bit and um I put out like um silly videos or fun videos or videos that are more confrontational or direct like actually talking about um sex techniques more directly uh on YouTube but um at in the beginning my YouTube videos were more informational like what is this what does this mean why are people into this so the what how all those things but um like maybe the more explicit stuff um in the later years right right so you already have an interest but the Saga actually kind of like did it push you to say that yes this is where I want to stand in the Gap I wanna I want to fight for this no I already decided to be a sexologist before the Saga yeah before the Saga before the Saga so the Saga helped to reinforce it or if the Saga just made me more scared The Saga made me traumatized it did not help me okay it made me very very scared of what could happen to me right because during The Saga there were people uh who wanted to who threatened to kill people on the Expo community of aware yeah yeah there were people who were who were actually whose lives were being threatened in Singapore right so that was fear for you um that's how that caused you to be a bit fearful and that caused you to be a bit more careful on how you're gonna do your practice got it I understand right but before that you were already studied okay and before that you were already interested right so the interest together with the skill sets that you had in terms of counseling use that to your practice

share with us how you kind of got your first few clients and what would happen uh just put out my website and uh I think the Breakthrough was when her world featured one of my workshops and suddenly I got a lot of people wanting to come for these workshops and uh then it helped but the first two years I didn't have many clients I I was um I was putting the word out there um I could hardly survive and I didn't know this back then but I realized this now that a lot of people and a lot of businesses they do shut down in the first two years so the fact that I lasted more than two years people started to take me more seriously so and it's the same for me I don't think anybody who hasn't been around for more than two years uh seriously anymore as well um It's Only Human Nature success follows success if you're successful people want to work with you they come after you they want to partner with you they want a piece of you but when you just start out they don't know whether you're even going to be around next month or the next year so so yeah the first two years was was the hardest um but it's okay it was okay um I survived it and then it just got better and better when you sit partner with people is it more business Partnerships are you talking about okay I understand the difficulty of business it's going to be business is a whole new ball game and the expertise you have is also very Niche there are two different things that you were trying to build so if you're going to start your business then um you're good in this skill set for example uh clinical sexologist you could have chosen to join a company maybe some national Healthcare Group or things like that was there any option like that that hey actually this no no group was looking for I exploited but they were not interested yeah I exploited I explored being part of a Counseling Practice yes uh they didn't mind me so I I started my own practice right so you considered that I did I did explore it who wouldn't want to have a easier life yeah um I would I would I would have wanted to walk in the hospital but I my training is such that I'm not a psychologist so that's like not considered good enough for them um I could go and get another yet another degree but um after four degrees I don't think I don't think I want to do that anymore so it was that's the only path that you could take that means starting your own business right okay and first to use was difficult I want to come back to understanding about this passion that you have I Define passion as three things one is interest one is strengths strengths are things that you do naturally and easily and then lastly is values so if I were to go through these three just as different layers for you um you mentioned that your interest started a long time ago even before when you're younger right and you're already interested in that anything else you can share that oh I think this is so interesting that I do want to make a career was there a damn time that yeah is it an article you read or something that you did that you so I think from as young as I could read I was really interested in like self-help or personal development I was reading these kinds of books even when I was in primary five I was always fascinated with human behavior I was reading dating books uh so as long as I can think of always because I just didn't want to be like I guess one of those people who uh

um struggled so I wasn't I was always really interested in in all this uh human behavior and I I really enjoyed um observing people uh studying human Behavior and the verbal non-verbal cues that they that they do yeah just like reading reading people observing people people watching yeah I just so yeah from a very very young age I think I was already interested in that and yeah that's my interest right so are you like them when you go to a coffee shop if you're sitting down alone you start to observe everyone instead of profile everyone this is what I do so I look at that man it's like oh what do you do yeah they come from so I do that but I always I realized that I was doing something different from just the normal people watching I was always also wondering what is their sex life like yeah I would I would be guessing of course there's no real way to know but just imagination I just I just want I just wonder about it right so if you're looking at somebody and then you're wondering that what thoughts do you come to mind is it more of like is it there are they normal kind are they what no no I just look at that and said this this person uh is glowing they might have had sex yet last night or this person hasn't had sex for at least a year yeah yeah seriously I would I would do that or like um I I think this person is still a virgin so these these these uh thoughts just come naturally yeah yeah it's just like this is a part of people reading first of all look at them and say okay like okay um this person is feeling this way this person probably works as this this person will probably single and then okay all about the sex life oh well I think blah blah blah whatever it is or uh I think this person has never had a boyfriend or whatever so all these things okay yeah so I do that uh I do that when it comes to for example like uh oh this person he's probably doing this kind of business what kind of business does he do yeah but I I wouldn't do business I was just like what kind of job not a job yeah okay so I think a lot of people go into psychology coaching counseling things like that they're just very curious about people yeah and because people are the most complex organism right the the beautiful thing and interesting thing is that even when I do profiling for twins identical twins and when I see their profiles totally different so even identical twins and I have six children All My Children personality wise are also different same household so it's it's just fascinating for me and I think one of the reasons why I do this podcast is so is that it's fascinating that everybody is so different everybody has their own passions and you you probably don't know where their passion came from who taught you to go to the self-help section hmm nobody right yeah I think it starts off with an interest and then that interest um you're interested because um you learn about it and then you develop an aptitude then you realize you're good at it and then when you're good at something you just want to be better at it and then it becomes a career yes so what happens with a lot of us who have interest is that um they they are they become our strengths but yet at the same time we may not really develop the muscle of the other things that we are not good at and um the things that we are not good at can be our weakest link yes yeah so I I call that um after you get your passion right the next step is performance because the world doesn't pay you for sub performance or low levels of performance they only pay for world-class or high levels of performance so even though you have interest in that if you're not performing well it's just a hobby nobody's gonna pay you nobody's gonna have to Value exchange of money but if you're good at that people can pay you and when they pay you then it becomes a career so after that performance comes in then pay comes in so for you interest is clear when it comes to people watching being very curious about people um when you were younger that you explore that for example do you go into drama I did I studied drama I wanted to be an actress actually that was my first um profession that I wanted to be um yeah then I realized that they struggle and then they are still at the whims of the director I think that's a part of me that just does not like being told what to do even if it's by the director so I so you did study drama I did school I did or formal training I did yeah I was um I was with stars which became SRT yes so as in the first musical of SRT oh my the first show was it musical the first show what do you like about that drama that there's some correlation to your interests about people and all that no I just think that there's a there's a magic that happens on stage in front of the stage you see a certain thing and then behind stage that's like a whole different world so I just like the the the magic of um um the stage yeah favorite movie was it would it be greatest Showman uh I don't think so I like American Beauty I like American Beauty a lot um because it it didn't really fit into a specific genre yeah romance and this and then I was I I really liked it okay okay right okay so that's interest then we're going to um strings where you actually mentioned that you will you have this special ability to talk to people would you say that you made them feel very comfortable and you saw them opening up or what if you would try to Define your strength where you had an unfair advantage over other counselors or other people what is that natural thing that the tools feel like empathy so I can put myself in their shoes and because I can put myself in their shoes uh whatever they say I get much quicker than others and it is the empathy the intuition that uh just cuts through everything I don't think I'm very good at talking to people actually but I think I'm very good at reading them and uh you know it's not just the words it's so there are three levels of listening as counselors the first level is what they say the second one is um how they feel and then the third one is what they do not say and uh what they do not say is the Beyond so so after many many after a few years I think I started to be really good at not just what they say what they feel which is empathy but also what they are not saying so I could pick up I started to pick up because of the experience what they they what they were going to say or what they are going literally what they're going to say before they say well if I already know what they're gonna say because uh you know like 100 other people before them say the same thing so I can even guess what they're going to say uh and uh but of course you you can't do that so so yeah so being able to even sense what is not said and what is going to be said uh that's useful for that I think we call it intuition for coaching that means that there's a certain intuition that you know that maybe the client is skirting around that's the main thing but they're just going around it and they're not prepared to go in here yes but you know and you can see it so so yeah I mean because of the experience you can read them a lot faster and uh just I call it cut through all the [ __ ] so I like doing that um because ultimately if this was the only chance that I have to work with them and I never see them again I really want to give that as much value as possible so so yeah it means putting putting yourself aside shelving shelving alive shoving your things and just really having full presence for this person in front of you who's suffering and it takes a lot out of you I would imagine that for somebody who is so empathetic that means you have that special connection where you can just put yourself in other people's shoes um emotions can come in waves and they can stick to you for a very long time yeah I'm a little bit of the opposite that means emotions don't really stick to me I kind of need to think through logically how a person feels so for example if somebody's pass away I may not feel it until I I understand my mind that logically that pet even though it's a hamster it's like a son to that person oh so when I see that in my mind then I can feel it here I think you are the opposite it sounds like that you can already sense it when they say something and I can't they don't even need to say something I just look at that I can feel it yeah so so in profiling there's one one of the talents where you just look at somebody you already know how they feel and that's empathy you can tell a lot and it's it's become sharper and sharper over the years

awesome so that's strength and the last one is values so for example values is something that an ideal career or I also call it calling an ideal career is very much your calling that you are pleased on this Earth for a certain reason and it's everything your passion interests your strengths your values so for me my value is bonus one of the values I have is that's why I want to do things that's new different there's a bit controversial contrarian I'm both like that and when I coach people and I'm doing things in my work it's living out my valuableness it's like do I dare to do it you know there's something for me for you what value drives you and that when you're doing this work you're living out that value what would that be

um so so I have done a lot of like uh inner work and like gone through like psychics and whatnot but uh it became very clear that my my purpose on Earth is to help people and of course there are many things you can help people with and uh supporting people in sexuality was a very conscious decision because of my interest but also because I see as I call it the Last Frontier of being an adult we get training for everything else except sex um and um a lot of people the the I guess you can argue whether it's true for everybody but I think for a lot of people the the mark of moving away from puberty and really like becoming an adult is when they lose their virginity you can argue whether it's true but um I have I have worked with so many people who say that they do feel different um even though they can be in their 30s and then they lose their virginity but they actually feel that they are now they really can really call themselves an adult and that was that was like a similar experience for me when I lost my virginity or you can say You release your virginity whatever you want to call it but anyway I see as the last 20 of being an adult and so this this is this just happens to be the space that I stand in to support people but actually I'm much more than helping people around sex people just say oh you're sexologist you call yourself psychologist you only help people with sex I actually see this as I'm helping people and what I help them with is much more than sex and I can help them in areas more than sex um but uh sex is like the Gateway and there are many other things that can help them with which I which I don't know of like mindfulness meditation visualization releasing healing uh anger management and stress but all these all these people don't see they just think that I only help people with sex and um that's fine with me so so my value is really just helping people right and the value from Young would you say that has changed or is always there you always wanted to help people you want to help people but you found this profession that you can help with people in this Niche um I I didn't really want to help people I mean for a big part of my life I was afraid of people I hated people I was scared of people I wasn't bullied by people um but I think um it is because you are bullied that you want to help people who uh uh are struggling uh you want to make it easier for people who were in your shoes um so having been a victim haven't been bullied um I don't want to help people fool and and believe that even bullies also need help yeah so um I also came from um I guess I just witnessed my parents um with not very well but I did witness them helping people a lot in different ways like uh Community work and and so I guess um just grow up um being kind and wanting to help thanks thanks for sharing about the The Bullying the interesting thing about human beings is that with a there when there's a huge adversity when you go down and if you're able to overcome that difference that you experienced it's actually a gift to so many other people yeah so I do see that a lot in I've personally for me I've overcome this whole idea of career right I know that there's a Wilderness I spend so much time just trying to figure out myself and I spent years and years of just wasting not wasting but exploring so I was in insurance I was in professional wheel writing I was a basket on the streets of Orchard Road I was doing wedding singing I was doing so many different things logo design but that and that was I would say adversity for me because it goes down my life goes down because I haven't found it I haven't overcome it yet and once I've overcome it and that that is now I feel that that is the greatest gift I can give to other people that if you are not sure about your career then listen to where I came from and same thing for you you have overcome that bullying you have overcome the people who are down in outcasts and things and you want to be that champion does it resonate for you yeah I think all of us can be somebody hero I think we we undermine ourselves and I think because of social media like any anybody any and anybody can be a hero so we I think we are so fascinated with uh people who put themselves out there because it shows courage vulnerability playfulness and uh what we are looking for I think when we go on like Tick Tock for instance Beyond being entertained I think we want to see realness and um each and every one of us can be a positive influence to somebody else yeah everybody's story is uh it's a light for somebody else's life right and I I do agree when it comes to tick tock and social media is that the more authentic you are the more No Frills you are the more you can connect with people yeah I like your your what you said that sex is the Last Frontier of being an adult

and this is such a taboo uh Topic in Singapore and the only time I remember in SEC 2 is like Oh chapter 13 and exactly two it's like oh we're gonna talk about sections chapter 13 SEC two so we already all of us like we're all boys school right so it's like oh remember chapter 13. and that's the only time that we can feel that we are able to like uh have that formal education that was the first time that's the only time I think formal education in Singapore chapter 13 SEC uh SEC two so all the playful boys will always be like you know then the teacher will be very uncomfortable sometimes teacher will be like okay guys this is the ovaries this is the penis and all that and all the boys were cheeky is like remember is the Practical man because signs are size their size lab then so the teachers you see them like very calm it's like okay there's no practical for this chapter 13. right they cannot laugh right now so for you you are going all out you are not only that you are you are not only teaching but also helping people and I understand that for you uh for your company you are you do counseling for sexuality um uh clinical sexologists you do counseling for that uh you also you also sell things online as well yes yes right and why do you think that is um I mean all these things are tools and all that like um for people what what is it for them if they don't really kind of explore the site what would you say to people who don't explore any of the toys or anything like that you don't have to however these are these are things that can help for instance like lubricants or uh like small vibrators or masturbiters they can help uh with releasing tension with stress uh introducing playfulness basically when you're aroused you will have less pain also when you use sexual AIDS like sex toys you can you can actually talk about it you can actually blame the toy and say it's too small too weak uh too strong you know so it's it's uh it's also like a conversation starter and it releases a lot of pressure um that or is your partner's fault or is your fault or whatever you can just talk about this about the object so yeah on my website I do curate um certain products that I've tried and then I will recommend them to my clients or whoever on my website like what you talked about that um you can blame the toy um former psychology point of view because it is such a taboo topic nobody talks about it there's high tension very high tension if something is wrong or one party feels this rule you putting that uh that actually this could be the issue and let's talk about that it's a very interesting way of looking at it it's like let's talk about this topic but let's not talk about the topic directly let's talk about it and um in yeah indirectly but when we indirectly talk about it then there's less tension yes precisely and also is so it's it's an aid it's supposed to make things fun and help help people to connect and relax I think we are just too serious about about sex

yeah I think uh yeah the only time I remember formal education was that and I think uh for women I think women I was remembering like a long time ago my mom would have her world magazines and all that and there'll be like one one who pays just sex page just talking about Q A's and it's only for female magazines so if male magazines didn't really have that at all yeah and Mill magazines you need to actually pass around not many guys who actually talk about that as well that's why they they read the women's magazine yeah yeah but even that there's a lot of censorship now um so they don't really even have it in the magazines anymore I I mean with the with the online media there's so many places and that you can go to get sex education so so uh yeah the publishing industry is really uh suffering yeah so when when you talk about this and um when you talk about toys you also do workshops yes I also run my own workshops so I have um penis massage vava massage [ __ ] Workshop so we do it on on sexual AIDS like the blow double shot like on carrot right right right so there's no uh nudity or touch in my work it's just um educational

um yeah because I think Technics is a small part of sex but still techniques allow people to kind of have a better idea what to do and then they they have the skills they become more confident so it's really important to teach people techniques as well in my opinion and they they tend to be very very popular workshops I have been doing so many over the years so I think the good thing about kovit is um a lot of it moved to Virtual so now I have recordings of these that I don't have to keep running those with the workshop again again it's the same topic right yes I I feel sometimes like I'm a bit of like a tape recorder you you don't want to come across as like a bit cynical you don't want to do that but yeah at the same time you know they they laugh at the same jokes they ask the same questions they don't understand you have done this like 500 times a thousand times and you're so over it so so so yeah I always try to like just do things in a different way or do different kinds of workshops yeah that's very honest of you um for me conducting workshops for mnc's and all that I do see sometimes it's like hey actually it's the same thing it's almost like a performance if you think about it's a performance right you you have the same script you go there in the same punch lines and all that and it's a performance yeah

yeah basking also the drama in different areas yeah see so when it comes to this like if I were to ask you like of all the different workshops what's the most popular show people who's like yeah okay okay so the penis and the vava massage Workshop I I is based on training that I've had so it's like somebody else's based on somebody else's work yeah but the [ __ ] washer is very much me and my personality and um like actually in a few stories so so yeah I really enjoyed that um because it's you know my then my personality comes through more um yeah okay just being curious when they go to a workshop and it's physical that means they come down to somewhere and then they see the person yeah how do I don't know because this topic is still so terrible yes yes how do they feel looking at another person and it's like saying this is my colleague I know this person I get that all the time I have people saying can you show me the attendance list yeah

yes yes so I don't care you know if they don't want to come uh then don't come you know now we have the virtual recording so it's fine okay it's a safer place it's fine or they can just pay for a private Workshop that's fine too okay interesting um yeah but yeah I do have a lot of people they're very shy they just come in they don't want to talk they don't ask questions yeah don't do anything they just want to sit and watch um but um that's fine too like in every Workshop there will always be one or two persons who's more vocal and like sharing their personal stories but I I think it's very healing that everybody gets to hear from one another who's willing to share and also to hear stories not from me uh so that's the reason why I I I throw in some personal stuff because um it cannot be just all techniques only you have to kind of humanize it a little bit so I'm quite used to a very quiet or even um yeah very quiet on non-responsive audience uh you cannot force people to open up or relax you just need to let it breathe a little bit and let them take their time and yeah I'm quite happy that because of that uh yeah usually they they relax by themselves and then they open up they ask questions and then they don't want to leave at the end that's always nice that the student always is seeking more from the teacher always last thing I I I love life hacks right so for me it's always even for self-help I always look at life hacks and all that if there's something about um your role that you play as a clinical sexologist or even um counselor and all that what is one hack that you can give to people that if they did that and maybe their life would be a bit different yeah I think because uh relationships and sex is very much uh relational I think a lot of people a lot of times we just think it's like I need to do something for someone but in reality the best thing you can do is to really have a very very good relationship with yourself

um like heal yourself make peace with yourself understand the things inside you that you could work on or improve say communication skills when it comes to your sexuality there's a lot of shame it comes to like masturbation or self-pleasure but actually it's it's a great way to learn about yourself first before you talk about communicating with others and expressing yourself with others so I think a lot of us my clients they they shut down their sexuality because they see as something frivolous useless they pocket aside oh wait till I have a partner but then they they don't really have that very personal relationship with themselves and their sexuality so I think the heck that I will give is um really you know just like anything else don't point fingers at others and expect others to do things for you or fix you or you really have to take self-responsibility I I know it's like maybe not not like not like specific enough but I think that is like the most important thing that all of us should should do yeah I I totally agree um in in my line of work in coaching the most difficult mountain to climb is self-awareness why do you feel a certain way um for me when I coach leaders sometimes about oh why are you angry when that person did that now your team member did this or what is your what why do you have this culture yeah what what about it but for yours it's a little bit more also the experience of why am I shameful why do I not want to talk about it why am I uncomfortable yeah so yes with reflection comes awareness and with awareness comes change or transformation so so really um a lot of us we are just busy living Our Lives we don't even take the time to think why did I do that why did I feel that way or why this is happening all the time to me like just taking that um time to really think about it and uh um finding patterns in our Behavior allows us to realize okay this this there are some deeper rooted uh trauma that I I need to address I need to heal so I think it's very very important for for all of us totiki thank you so much Dr Mata for your time today I learned so much and I this is one of the most interesting podcasts I've ever had oh thank you thank you thank you for your time

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