TRANSCRIPT

The Secret to Happiness at Work - Mark Tay | The CJH Podcast EP12

*Captions are taken directly from YouTube and may not be 100% accurate

how you help is a different thing like right some people yeah everybody is yeah some people I say like I help you by by basically telling you that you're a complete sh*t head so you don't walk into this thing and then that might cause like other kind of pain [Music]

welcome everybody today I'm my buddy Mark Tay I'm with me and we're going to be talking about one very important thing about work why can't I be happy at work so Mark when we think about this issue about why can't I be happy about I have certain I have certain parameters when it comes to that and sometimes it is this whole idea of passion if you're not passionate about your work you won't be happy that being said I know our parents generation and our grandparents this generation didn't give a [ __ ] about work being passionate or I look forward to it yeah they didn't even consider this whole idea of I need to be happy I just need to I listed to basically bring home the bacon and that's it yeah what is your views when it comes to should we actually find that passion because I'm a very big advocate for that or should we just something else do something else I think that I think it's important to identify where the happiness comes from I think when the reason why I say happiness at work and I thought it would be interesting to talk about that was because many times I have tried my best to find that form of happiness in the work that I do but sometimes uh the work you do might not be the thing that actually makes you happy it might be because of the work that you do you're given the opportunity to have happiness in something else that maybe matters more so it really depends on to what degree uh you Peg Your Existence to your work and to your other outside work kind of situation so I think for a long time for me personally I packed a lot of my identity to my work uh and I mean like there are positives to it obviously but I feel like they might in the grand scheme of things it might make you lose sight of what are you actually trying to what actually will make you happy as a whole because it might not because what might just be one of the things so I just had a conversation about this just now with another coach and finding your passion can be very negative to some people because this whole idea or passion if you really think about it yeah it is the first world problem yes

so if we bring us back to for example 200 300 years ago where we're just doing something that's maybe to do farming or some kind of spice or something something like that when we do 300 years ago are you sure yeah how about where is 2 300 1700s yeah oh there's no technology actually I'm not sure okay 500 years ago 1500s yeah so okay anyway long time ago if we were to think about Singapore as a third world country uh we everything we do was just about survival yeah yeah and nobody there could really figure out okay do I am I passionate if I'm working this or am I just thankful that I have a job yeah so I do feel it's a first world problem yeah but it's still a very big problem because it talks about engagement talks about like okay now I have so much Choice my parents have uh have helped me to have a roof over my head yeah food I have all the basic things now I'm going for the next one in Maslow's hierarchy of self-actualization so first of all problem has this issue about passion has this issue about am I fulfilled at work long time ago we don't need that so I do feel that it is um it is a first world problem and not everybody needs to go not everybody will go through this so when we think about passion or when we think about happiness at work if I was a farmer last time and I know that I like to invent different things then I'll try to find within that farming Community how do I invent things so it's a it's this idea that I need to still figure out what am I built for within that circumstance that I have in a situation but still pursue it but rather pursue the the other thing yeah so for example if let's say both of us were farmers and all that I would come up with different inventions because I love new ideas I love to oh maybe we create this tool this will help cut farming by 50 for example anyway I get you I mean within the construct of a particular industry maybe industry or industry situation you're saying that it will have this certain kind of passion yeah but then at the same time still wait yeah still do the job I need to do yes because all no choice are right yeah otherwise you know like you were like go right invent invent event in the end no food to eat so we still do that but it's just that maybe to what percentage you put your time into it like maybe 70 yeah is normal normal food and then 30 is you know uh what many people would uh uh call in a very scientific sense [ __ ] all thank you

so yeah would you would you mean that like spending only a portion but then now are you saying that people maybe are spending with the whole quiet quitting and everything people are spending like 40 on their work and then 60 on their uh what they're passionate about in the construct of work is that what you mean no so there's always a choice and uh you're right to say that uh different to different people it is different yeah so if you were to think about work there's one aspect of work is which is the time and whether we're in a first world country second world or third world country so happiness is different from each right yeah this time yes first world country we can think about self-actualization the highest of Maslow's hierarchy of needs right if we were in a third world country where we're just talking about survival then we might not have that option however my thinking is that you will still need to figure out of all the things you do in let's say we talk about farming what is your greatest value at what is your what what are you built to do right some people they are built to invent things some people are built to like okay they make things more efficient so it's like different different things that we still need to kind of like I I'm a firm believer that there is no such thing as everybody should do the same thing okay because you're all wired very different yeah and the innate wiring helps us to understand that passion yeah and also helps us to understand this over idea of Happiness yeah right I Define when it comes to good work to do things that is challenging to you that means like if you are here it pushes you higher yeah so it's challenging and number two is very interesting so numbers people will find numbers interesting non-numbers people shouldn't go into that if you're a people person then go into that people aspect so there's an aspect of to be happy in the job you need to figure out what are you wired for and we are wired for that then pursue opportunities based on that correct but there's also the there's also the other factor which you can't really what's the word for it you can't really control which is like the circumstance like the the the the the the circumstances of where you where you are I mean technically you could but circumstances of where you live or where you exist yeah because there was a whole like what if you find challenging and also very well if you're very passionate about and also find very challenging the idea of poetry and your fantastic poet you know but then you and you can like you know Regale everyone with your Rhymes and limericks but then in Singapore people will be like we will only upload it now you just need something to do data analytics or something something else like something like engineering or or Finance so that also means that you it's it is in are you trying to say that for so those situations you just move get the heck out of what okay you actually know the question I have is yes of course if you suddenly realize that in Malaysia there's a massive demand for poets yeah move to Malaysia you probably make it quite big what if what you're really passionate about yeah it's not relevant in anything in the world so that's I don't know what it would be like yeah let me be like farming like so you know that's interesting long time so I was talking about I was thinking about this long time ago uh there's this whole idea of ikigai where it talks about uh the Japanese way of living is that how you pronounce it I don't know I think so okay yeah so let's talk about like um uh what you're passionate about or what you feel you love yeah it's a quadrant what you love uh what you're good at um what pays you and then the last one what the world needs you're talking about the world needs is the practicality you're saying that the thing has four quadrants and then it's oh [ __ ] okay then I have not seen the same one as you oh yeah so is it basically is that you have different things right so there are four things so what you love what it pays you what you're good at and then what the world needs but then in the in those four corners you put like maybe for example engineering that would be one of the things yeah so it depends so for example poetry uh it could be what you love you're good at it but the world doesn't need it okay so then go so you're saying that no then it's just a cross-section between those two images imagine like four circles or four circles yeah then that quadrant is like oh okay so this is it this is what the world doesn't need poetry for example but then you love it and you're good at it

you've identified these yeah so anyway so there's one framework that people use when it comes to trying to figure out what is my call in my life what's my identity what is what what am I called to do right uh your question about poetry the funny thing about it is that uh it might not be something that the world needs however because of YouTube social media and all like Tick Tock interest based I can love like a very Niche point for example I only play this kind of Pokemon cards and everything about me talks about Pokemon class or video games and I just love playing this video okay okay okay funny thing about it in this DNA you don't you that quadrant I feel ikigai needs to be updated you should take out that quadrant there's no need to figure out whether or not the world needs that because now it is no more geography where it's like oh only Singapore we need poets or not yeah the entire world so if you can my belief is that if you Niche down enough for a certain passion you will have uh what do they call those people who are like super Fanatics huh okay [Laughter] sorry I feel now is a very um a particular yeah so for example if it's long time ago our parents would say that video games you cannot do anything oh yeah now we have twitch streamers and also we have twitch streamers twitch streamers and then we have uh Esports ah right so I I do feel that if you Niche down enough you will be able to make that passion into a living because there will be a group of people who really want to consume that content and because of this day and age yeah 20 years ago 30 years ago that is not possible because we are kept by or we are only in Singapore and now it's everywhere so if you're on YouTube and you're Niche down enough at a particular thing so it could be like a specific kind of stems or specific kind of coins or I mean you just kick out about that totally that could be your passion which can monetize into something else do you feel okay I get you I I I see your point one of the questions is this only in the realm of content creation well I was wondering like what this mainly been the realm of content creation unless of course unless of course we're saying that content creation is necessary because it's the form of content marketing and then from there you still need to for example if you actually want to make this a viable business have a separate like business case for let's just say we talk about poetry still okay yeah you have a whole like YouTube channel with you writing poetry on the spot live stream and then after reading it out taking inspiration from different people like essentially a very slow freestyle rapper yeah but we're basically putting that down and then you still have a separate business which is more in line with um for example poetry classes yeah then is that what you mean like so not just not just the content creation so I I think that for Content itself everything is content yeah yeah that's true every single thing it's just how you present what you are interested into the different mediums so you could do a twitch stream you could do a tick tock you could do a YouTube because of this day and age every Niche that you have can be good content and you can open up to many different ways you're talking about like online courses yeah yeah right so that's one Avenue stream it could be that because your views are so good then you just get paid by YouTube and things like that okay that's possible or you get into brand deals and all that yeah so I I do feel that it doesn't once you go there uh opportunities will arise right and then if you're not a teacher then maybe somebody else will help you over teaching or maybe that's not your gifting and and you're just a YouTube channel that has millions of views but it's just about you freestyle poetry yeah and that is what's going to be your Nisha the question is do I need to monetize it yeah can I still have a full-time job yes right and the answer is up to you so I do feel that some people are very restless because like oh this is my full-time job yeah and this is where my fire is some people cannot live with that balance oh okay some people need this to be the job yes some people are okay with that yeah so Wesley our friend and photographer she said one of the best photographers uh is somebody who is a lawyer and takes part-time shots but he's super good at this and that is his passion he doesn't want to give this up yeah he can live in both I personally can't live in both I can't do a nine to five and I and this is my passion and I always look forward to my passion but I don't look forward to this that much why can't you do that I don't know so I'm built in a different way and some people forget about passion screw passion I'm just gonna do my job so that I can sustain my family yeah what's important to you right yeah so three different groups of people and there's no right and wrong so I so the the question I think in terms of happiness is also the idea that knowing being very self-aware what kind of person are you are you okay with doing a 925 and then your passions on weekends and after seven then that's okay Carry On Your Passion or are you like me who your passion must be your career then you got to figure it out I think yeah because where you come from and I get this and also because you're quite familiar and you're quite well versed in the whole content creation space you know you you also do you also put out quite a fair bit like you you're used to like putting stuff out you're used to creating you're used to having to kind of like there's a there's a definite entrepreneurial spirit that comes within what you do and also it's just with your history of also you know the kind of what you do is generally very much that sort but I think that I'm not sure 100 because I'm also not I'm not I'm not like exactly like what you are but I'm not also the other side of things yeah so I know that they're going to be individuals who feel a bit stuck yes because you know like they can't actually give up their main job yes because in truth they can't see uh they can't see and so I mean your way you came up where you came about with the whole like find that Niche yeah really really drill down with it and then that will give you the build that essentially built your tribe from there to your community from there and that's where you will find whether or not that becomes a main source of income and then because of that your main job it depends on your own depends on you that one depends on you but but at least that is a step in the right direction yeah worst case scenario you have a really fun bunch of people that you love to hang out with who are just crazy about poetry for example yes you know and then you have you have a fun bunch of people that you love to hang out with yeah and that still sustains you to that degree yeah but best case okay in a sense best luck I can't say what's best what's the best but on the on upside which if you want it you actually may be able to cover the particular like Niche for yourself like in a commercial sense yeah but that only is if you are able to do that content creation route yes if you don't choose social media yeah as part of that amplifying of your passion you will not monetize yeah yeah so there's this guy you might love but just take very long and you have to be damning like let's just say you assume somebody that's zero social media let's assume okay wait just work with me which is like 100 years ago yeah so yeah so zero social media yeah but then what they do is so specific no they don't then yes yeah featured in brain publication yeah and then we're like wow it's very unique yeah you know and then maybe you might build that maybe you know you'll be built very slowly so a long time ago I don't know you know you know remember we were writing songs and all that so I was very into poetry so I joined this guy yeah Aaron Lee and Aaron Lee is a Singapore poet award-winning and he's a lawyer full-time all right so we go to his house and read poetry and then we'll read that everybody's like wow that's [Laughter]

invite me I don't know so Aaron Lee he's a lawyer full-time uh Singapore right now I think also Asia when it comes to poetry and he writes books and all that but I don't think that will ever that will ever be his full-time job yeah he's still a lawyer profession he still does that but he did he has like okay gatherings in his house he does I don't know where he does classes and all that so at this point of time it is there's so many opportunities if you take the social media yeah if you don't then it was kind of like yeah a bit stuck yeah yeah I get you so it really just does depend whether you feel the importance and importance in commercial nessler yeah if you feel that you want your passion to also pay you yeah because for a long time for me personally I've had the problem of like having these things that I've interested in yeah but I don't end up pursuing them because I naturally go like oh but then how would this work commercially yeah you know then of course yes I don't even I don't even attempt to do the whole recording thing although even because I'm like oh how this well even if I did this well and it does well how many units can I sell how much can I price and then I'll go down and do that kind of detail yeah write down the entire I won't say spreadsheet like a piece of paper but write everything and then I'll be like oh okay so I'll only be able to make this amount I don't even want to do it yeah right but then I end up always thinking about oh it'd be nice to do this thing but I'll never do it because I'll be like commercially kind of thing now my partner she she basically went you know you gotta kind of just do stuff because you want to do it yeah but uh yeah so that's something that I think maybe as individuals I'm not sure that anybody else feels the same way but if anybody else feels that I think that's something I've had to constantly get over the fact that you can actually have a hobby yes you know maybe evolve to something else of course but you can actually have a hobby If It Makes You Happy yeah because I think because of that I don't actually have any hobbies if you realize I don't actually have any hobbies I go to work you come back I mean I like to go to eat places but I don't think like going to eat nice food once in the walls because you know hobby yeah right right um but yeah I don't I don't have I don't really have hobbies I don't like and now the whole like trying to get into some sort of regime of exercise um is is just really more of uh trying to figure out a low barrier a low barrier to entry activity that I can do on a constant basis to hopefully jog my system out of this whole uh uh you know you need a hobby the Hobbies need to be uh what's your favorite hobbies need to be commercially commercially viable because I mean that's the biggest problem because a lot of hobbies a lot of the things that I want to do as Zero commercial viability I know and I looked at it from the beginning but it's uh but yeah but I I think that that's something which maybe you should try I mean do you have any hobbies no see yeah I don't know yeah see that's the thing I don't think everybody needs to have a hobby yeah if it's something important that you feel uh energized and alive when you're doing it but it doesn't pay you is it worth still doing I think it's very well I think it's still worth doing it I think yeah okay see this is the thing I feel uh that maybe there is not enough weight or importance placed on that thing when you say that what do you think when you call that thing the thing that makes even though it doesn't make you money because what uh energizes you yeah no like it energizes that battery there's a certain battery that you have right energizes that battery and people don't put enough weight onto the importance of that battery being energized you know and that's the thing which I I mean maybe that's what that's what me I'm personally facing I don't put enough weight on that I mean there's there are many other things I don't put enough weight on like I basically I don't get enough sleep and everything and I know that that's important but this is another one of them there's not enough emphasis placed on um energy on recharging that battery that is about and I don't know it's not really passion so I don't think it's really the words passion passion is more of the thing that that kind of like it doesn't energize your passion you know what I mean passion helps energized that this what is that thing what's that fuel cell you're not trying to say yeah so um okay if you if you were to okay you think about fuel cell and we think about how do I recharge yeah okay so when you recharge uh you do things that is pertaining to your passion yes I break down passion into three things yeah one of the things about passion is interest that means if I'm interested in poetry it fuels my passion it recharges me that's interest the other one is strength dog hunting as in hunting with dogs

so the other one is strengths strengths basically is things that um natural not natural for you I'm sure some people is joking some people's numbers something just natural you're good at dog hunting right and then last one is values what is your values in life some so I have a value of Adventure okay somebody else is a value of stability when you say you have a value of Adventure does that mean that my prioritize Adventure hi oh okay what's low stability uh

with the 50 chance that the Rope will break but if you if it doesn't then you get the budget jump again that's like Russian roulette with like five five bullets out of six yeah would you do that yeah but then it's not exciting to you right so you think my extreme sports why would they go into base jumping and what are they going to you know those like Wing suits then they go through like holes and all that then those videos are yeah it's great videos but then the their life expenses is so low really yeah very very low yeah 30 is gone already ah really man yeah because it's so extreme to me you're saying that all of them die when they're 30s no if they keep doing that extreme sport they will they will or the chances of them yeah and and you'll see like documentaries after documentaries they do this and then sometimes nobody makes a documentary a person who lived till he was the right old age of like 95 and then passed away in his sleep yeah

was he a politician

I mean like these are the big names

what whole age no I always let me all right age and then they're doing what they they are built to do us so coming back um anything that recharges you either interest strengths or values yeah so these things recharge you you can choose to do this in a job or you can choose to do it in a side project or hobby yeah correct I get you I get you in terms of passion yeah helps to recharge a thing now it could be a passion tank it could be a yeah okay it could be that but the thing is that thing is not the thing is so I'm just trying to figure out what that thing is and I think it's yeah anything about that because that thing is the thing which I think people don't put value in that's that's where I'm coming from I think people don't actually put value in that yeah because it's not practical to some people so let's say I do poetry it could also be taking some time for myself to go like to go and have a nicer meal fits into that it fills my what that thing is funny that's what I'm trying to figure out what I think is no so what you're saying is that there's there's a few components one of them is taking care of yourself right I go for a foot massage or go for a nice meal that's taking care of yourself enjoying oh you think there's a different enjoying life I think that's a different one yeah because I've I don't think foot massage is my hobby you know I enjoy doing it but it's like not my hobby like giving out no I like food but I'm not like well I'm passionate about food like Beyond I'm not I'm not that so there's things that uh you enjoy almost like you consume and then enjoyment enjoy like movies and all that that's big for me movies movies then there's things that not not that you create your Visa okay yeah not that you consume but you you kind of do the tasks that you do energize so that's the output yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah uh it's two different parts but one energizing but the energizing thing is things you do yeah yeah things you do but that helps to charge up a thing yeah that's what I'm trying to say yeah so is that thing the theme is that thing the same thing that's charged up when you do things that make you happy I mean do things that make you give you Joy like food reflex no it's different it's different so vacations food reflex uh enjoying a meal watching a movie that's all consuming it is something that you enjoy it's almost like you go somewhere for a walk and he's like wow this is a nice scenery yeah beautiful mountains and all that so that's all enjoyment yes right the this side which is what you are built to do and you're doing it it's like um it's almost like an eagle flying you know you know you are just you're built to do this and then you're doing it that kind of enjoyment um you get because you it's almost like I'm built for poetry I'm writing poetry I'm built for songwriting I'm writing songs right right and it's different because there's an output there's a third one I feel that all human beings actually do have which is it which is about giving back

every single one of us have that philanthropy uh for those people who give back with money uh giving back random acts of kindness whatever is giving back and helping another brother or sister or another human being everybody finds joy in doing that right if they don't find Joy I feel that there is some kind of trauma inside something that affected them to a point where they feel that that um they probably short circuited something but there is a part where all of us when we help an elderly cross the road or when we this whole idea of am I My Brother's Keeper if you are your brother's keeper you will find joy as well compared to being selfish is that more to do with responsibilities of the people next to you and me and that could no it can be random so it could be that uh you see somebody Randall responsibility should be a YouTube channel so the third one yeah giving back is uh any to all human beings where we help somebody there is a joy that comes up how you help is a different people yeah everybody is yeah some people I say like I help you by by basically telling you that you're a complete [ __ ] so you don't walk into this thing and then that might cause like other kind of pain right they might like cause like other kind of mental like uh you know what I mean like basically if you keep telling somebody that he's useless because you're and you're doing it all the goodness of your heart because you don't want him to screw up but then he ends up always and ends up thinking that he's a complete [ __ ] Hitler and he doesn't end up doing anything I'm just wondering that's like no I don't think that's it that's it sorry yeah because I always feel that everybody thinks that they're doing the right thing yeah which is true yeah everybody thinks they're doing the right thing so I mean I could tell you Jason you need to cut your hair yes several times you should have told me many many times right but then and then the thing is that you might go like wow that's a bit you know you should really kind of respect my decisions you cannot respect my style and I'm coming from the point of I don't want you to look like an idiot yeah right could be you're not saying that you do a lot yeah so the thing is I would say like you know that is kind of one way of doing but if I keep doing it and then not not not uh not um as uh not uh not the ones not realizing that that might be causing you yeah you know uh uh harm in whether it's mental whatever harm then that's not very helpful but the point is it's about that kind of giving back is that counted so I think giving back uh it needs to be uh seen and appreciated by the eye of the beholder that means the person receiving it okay yeah she needs to feel that okay this uh makes sense to me and all that yeah if he doesn't feel that way then it's not like so for example uh yeah if you so so so sometimes for example if somebody's giving trying to sell tissue and then you just give the money and don't take the tissue yeah it might be insulting to that person because yeah I I want to be able to put in effort I don't want you just giving me money I don't want your charity yeah that kind of thing I am working hard and this is something as a value exchanger so it depends so it always depends on that person if I can take it and you tell me and I know it's a joke because you're my good friend I won't give it yeah so depends so coming back yeah the idea is that um there are there are a few things that affect us uh I would like to say this whole idea of an optimal life a happy life a joyful life and all that one yeah so one is you're consuming things

yeah about you and the other one or buying new clothes nice clothes things like that or buying for guys something is Tech and all that then the other one is giving back no the other one is doing tasks that you feel is that you're built for so yeah consuming and then giving back okay got it yeah so once oh sorry sorry yours is one is output the task you do then the last one is that what x that you do to help another human being yeah so these all of course would be great all three were the same thing

a little bit of this whole idea of helping another human being there is like if there was a situation where for example your passion is let's see for me coaching okay right okay oh no let's go back to poetry I really can be poetry was an example let's go back to our favorite thing if let's just say my passion is farming okay let me go farming and then by farming by by doing this farming I feel so I I charge up my passion meet my my tank yeah but then at the same time my farming allows me to give back to the people to people around me the people that actually maybe matter to me to some degree that charges up that one yeah and wait was it and also area there I actually quite like soil it's like running around in the soil is something that I feel is quite fun like food reflects then you cross the streams man possible I don't know I never thought about that but then you're saying that the last one maybe not yeah because that's consuming that's like uh I want to reward myself I want to take a vacation I don't think you can reward yourself with something that you do that is your passionate about I think possible so for example if I were to say I love Burgers then let's say I love burgers and I go to a restaurant that is helping underprivileged yes and then you do what yeah

you consume you take away with you but then you're also doing something you do that allows you to take away something and give something so yeah I don't think it's possible I don't know I never thought about it I mean wait but are you saying that there's three different tanks are there three different fuel cells or is it one thing fuel cell you're saying one fuel the same fuel cells three different three different views so to give back fuel cells one three different things that uh make you feel a little bit you can call joy happiness you can call fulfillment yeah there are three different things so but but there are three different oh yeah I don't know three different things do all three things feel the same cell I think it's three different cells though oh no but because human beings we don't really like if I have my leg hurts versus my arm hurts is different but yeah but if they're done food reflex and all that it feels good and all that I I don't know I don't think we segregate inside I I don't think we it all goes definitely to the same person but I do feel that oh no I I personally think it's different I can tell you why okay because I don't have a [ __ ] life I honestly don't I have a yeah I've been very very fortunate uh I I've had I've had I've had a good life honestly growing up has been some challenges but of course it's normal you have to have challenges otherwise otherwise you know you you'll be like boring as [ __ ] so definitely some challenge but nothing nothing major yeah okay but nothing major uh in the grand scheme of things but the thing is I am I do I I will be able to do certain things for example let's just say I really enjoy full reflex let's just say I really enjoy eating a fancy restaurants I can actually do those things yeah and I occasionally do that yeah you know and while that will make me like okay this is nice like for example the curry rice earlier yeah that's [ __ ] sick yeah so they're a lot of things like wow that's really nice to enjoy right but then I think about the other second part about the whole patch doing the thing that you're actually passionate about right I think about it and I know that there's a freaking void there so confirm is different one I I need unless you're saying that no no I just think that they're too you say like you're not really segregate us I think it can I think it's agree no it's to you uh yeah okay coming back I do you feel that yes there are three different ones but um so for example if I'm saying that sometimes for us for us as uh human beings that means that so let's say you got a damn good burger and it really affects your mood and your emotions that day have you ever had a burger that affects your mood emotion I mean that's for voila then does it does it affect the work yeah yeah I think you're right I think there are three different I think but it's just I yeah there are three different ones you can do one and then two avoid your life you'll feel a little bit of a yeah so you can do all this like consume like crazy do all the work and then like let's see you love doing it and then you don't give a feel that something's missing yeah you don't help another brother or sister yeah something's wrong thank you something's missing yeah yeah I think it's mainly so optimal life would be these three are there any others any other things you feel when it comes to happiness and in life yeah because I think that those so so so hobbies that uh you consume those are kind of temporary kind of happy temporary kind of things right then there's passion which is a bit more about the wings side of things and that is the giving back which you brought up is there anything else besides these two I mean broadly you can say these three but is there anything else you think might be might might anything else you think that you might want people might want to consider because I mean I'm just I know it's tough I know it's it's not to say you see it's the thing is that when people say I always be happier a lot of people think that it's very sad you know what I mean how do I happy and how happy in life is this actually this this session started a little bit more but happy at work but yeah in truth is that how do we have been in life yeah I think there's another one it's a separate problem so I think there's another one human beings were built for cooperation not for competition yeah sure not yes so the idea of cooperation means that I'm more willing to help my buddy out either in army or at work or somebody and they're big it it's almost like I'm helping you out because you are my colleague or because we are cooperating together uh and there is a different Joy of that it is a bit different from serving that charity philanthropy that just giving back to people who maybe uh are less fortunate right I'm just giving so for example you see a busker and then you just want to give that's a different one this is cooperation means that I am working together with you to do something so let's say for example we do certain projects together right okay you do things you help me out I help you out sometimes and things like that there's a joy that comes from cooperation right that that like wow so everybody feels that yeah so we are built for that okay I I do feel that we're built for that so give your example in Army it's like oh you encourage somebody in the 2.4 and then like come on you can do it this guy is just your buddy but your team member and all that but it's like there's something about that you can call it command what do you call that commandant camaraderie yeah so there's collaboration I feel that there's another tank uh if you think about it I I is that the same as giving back it's it's a bit different because we are coordinating and cooperating our efforts towards a certain cause something that we want to do we were doing something that we feel meaningful and then we want to do and then we want to help each other so there's one at work it will be like sometimes it's like I hate my boss I hit my job but my best friend is there I'll stick to it oh so I I look after you you look after me we can be happy together in our own little bubble that we and and still find that Joy it's one of those situations where they say that a team is very very closely knit when they have a [ __ ] boss

your team looks really really well [Laughter] yeah so there's another pillar I do feel about they all did not respond to that that's what's great teamwork collaboration something about uh cooperation as we cooperate together as human beings and we do a tassel here's the last time when I do projects uh at church or in school and all that uh oh we did this drama together wow that's awesome then you feel that there's a diff it's a different Bucket from all these but that is like wow I I did this for another person yeah I help you out you help me out or can I help you uh can I help you lift this up and all there so there's another one I think there's definitely a couple I mean I get you I I see how that's definitely are there more I think there are nuances of many um but if you ask me now I think there's peaceful yeah you should write a book is anybody reasonable about this a meaning of life is that God so so there are many books about living a life of purpose and all that it's always coming back okay there's one more then they talk about this whole idea of a Cause but that's a giving back right yeah so a course might not be giving back oh so I have a different cost like for example he says business owners Network it's a course but it's not really giving back it's about a community of people I believe that yeah you come together your course being like you want to see it can of course be for example you want to see better treatment of um people in the workforce so it could be non- it could be marginalized but it also could be like um

I would like to ensure that I have better pants for the rest of my life I'm just wondering I just or like or like maybe like you know I would love to make sure that my ass is like in Prime condition all the way until I'm 90. as a course yeah I'm just wondering is that is that a Cause or is that not is that under like hobby because you you know you want to keep your ass like in tip top shape when you're 90 you okay so that's a cause you gotta go man you know I think like coming back if you Niche down enough you probably find I I know the words I know the word about the Japanese one

the Japanese fanatic uh

[Laughter] coming back uh Darius yeah so there's a cause that um what did you say yeah it's like I think it's good data oh yeah yeah so anyway coming back there there is a course I do feel uh that that also brings back to this idea of Joy passion and happiness and not in life but also in work some people unfortunate enough to say that my course is my work

yeah and then they're happy and all that so coming back um just to wrap this up so I do feel that happiness at work um it really comes down to self-awareness what you feel is important to you uh for me I'm always an advocate to find your passion for me it's because I am that group of people who cannot who need to have the passion to be the work that I do some people are still finding it some people like my dad um he he couldn't get into medical he went to dental but he really wanted to go in medical and then last time everybody's poor right A lot of people are poor then so that just but then he learned to love his work somehow rather you do and sometimes for guys for example is that as sometimes as long as we are respected in our field we also do feel that hey wow there is that maybe there's another one you feel respected in your field and you'll be like well I feel respected here I think and that could be something stems from some this stems from another ass could be so yeah so for you the journey for finding happiness or can I be happy at work from what you're saying is that it most likely is something along the lines of that you can find happiness anyway um you need to find the root purpose of what I mean that maybe that's why the costing is important right because it depends on because the course can be big or small so I asked you whether the course can be for example setting up a community of people of like-minded individuals or whether it's ensuring that there's equality among uh genders in the workplace yeah it looks to be large causes yes but while I was wondering can of course be as ridiculous as I want to have a hot ass still of 90. not as in a hot ass not yeah you know like like literally my butt being like like rock hard I believe that because human beings are there are so many distinctions and things that we enjoy you could probably can find 500 people in who won the best in the entire world who have the same passion for a hottest and 290 yeah correct correct but there's passion right that's not so much like the cause I'm just wondering because if that's if that falls into for example cause that might be a situation where that course can also then on a more realistic level be I want to have the best of my family and that's the cause it could be could be yeah so if you think about like Cloud groups they are have a cause yeah and then somehow rather I usually skip I skip after the cocktails yeah what cult yeah oh

no wait right so every leader every leader uh in the cult uh because so for so whatever reason they have a great cause and then they are influential enough to you brainwash brainwash is a negative influence is a positive yeah brainwash everybody to say that this is the way and let's eat a pill and let's all go and see Jesus that kind of thing all right everybody uses Jesus do they use Jesus yeah yeah okay but not in Singapore that's cool all right okay until next week guys all right thank you guys for joining us yeah

[Music] thank you