TRANSCRIPT

Is your Company Giving "We Are Family" Vibes? - Mark Tay | The CJH Podcast EP16

*Captions are taken directly from YouTube and may not be 100% accurate

[Music]

what's going on everybody all right

today we have Mark in the house again

and today we're going to be talking

about this whole idea of work as a

family so some employers uh will

actually say that that hey actually join

us uh because our work you know when you

come in it's like a family everybody

treats each other like a family yeah so

I'm sure you heard of this before right

yes I have heard of this before totally

right okay so what is your view on that

uh don't do

it no no no that's not true I think that

it's nice to it's very important to

ensure that you have a workplace that

you can feel very comfortable and safe

in and I definitely feel that it's

important however I do personally think

that using the term family might not be

the not sry it's not might not be I

don't think using the the term family is

a very healthy way of going about it cuz

there many other things that linked to

family yeah you know like one of the

main things I I remember I used to go

through was uh when it comes to family

you know you probably have a brother

sister father mother sorry that was that

that makees sense in your family you

probably have siblings or parents I'm

sorry or kids who are damn irritating

for some reason right but you put up

with them and you deal with them because

they're your family you like ah it's K

you know but you know he or she is just

like that you know you put up with that

but that's not what's work supposed to

be like if the person is underperforming

if a person is not exactly doing what

they're supposed to do if they're not

actually pulling their weight it can't

just be it's okay you know it's just

family you know that's that's not how it

works because it hinges a lot of

emotional linkages to relationships

which I don't think is something which

is very healthy or or or useful or

efficient in a workplace what about you

Jason what do you think so when I when I

think of people saying that as um work

as a family I think they're trying to be

as humanizing as possible to make sure

that okay I don't see you as a number

but then if the number is on this side

where I just see you as um person in a

factory line where you produce something

then after if you don't produce then

sorry bye-bye then on the other aspect

which The Other Extreme is like you're

my family and um in efforts of

humanizing this whole phrase came out

yeah of course and I felt

that that causes a lot of um issues

especially for the leader

because like like what you said if the

leader feels that he actually work is

like a family and we will put up with

our brother I have a brother I'll put up

my brother I'll put up my mom I'll put

up my dad he puts up with you too yeah

so they put up with me too because um in

the family context the I think the main

thing is that you cannot uh break the

family yeah right family cuz family

that's V diesel yeah yeah yeah I got

family I forgot there's one line that he

says what I don't know it's like you

don't need you don't need logic

that's what he says he's actually every

single thing we don't need this if you

have family like really I don't know

whether he was like that even before the

Fast and Furious last time he was like

man he was like R yeah what was R

there's only one speed mine like what

the [ __ ] such a weird term so so there

is extremes where I treat you as a

number and uh I don't really care how

you feel you just produce if you don't

produce you're out yeah right and On The

Other Extreme is that I treat you as a

family member and if you're low

performing I'll guide you all the way

because I know that you will one day

recover and one day overcome whatever it

is that that might I mean sure it's a

nice thing to it's a nice way of looking

at it but I mean like I mean you have

had experiences and I think we've gone I

mean I have personally gone through like

sessions with you and you have also

brought up a point about at certain

point uh the at certain point within a

particular scope

uh this uh certain individuals may not

be able to perform any better and they

need to probably reassess maybe if they

want to go into something different

which they can probably Excel a lot

better than somebody else so if you go

with the whole thought process of like

oh yeah I can definitely help you all

the way up sure I mean it's good that

you have this nurturing environment but

really at a certain point of time canot

you know like hey cannot you just not

working out then what you going to keep

doing just you know constantly try and

flock a dead fock a ho here FL is that

why is that how to say is FL a dick

HCK just say dick hot flog a dick hot no

well I mean you can flog a dick hot live

if you want you can flog a dick hot flog

a dick H flog a dick hot flog a dick hot

is going to be way better hey would you

like the fog a dick hot I'm sorry it's

Martin fog a dick hot fog a dick hot uh

so no I mean I think it's really like um

I think it's really more to do with uh

yeah I mean a certain point you what

what are you going to do because you

might want to reconsider perhaps another

individual might be best in that space

this also kind of leads into the point

about how we had this conversation about

hiring and firing and everything before

and how like at the end of the day it's

very difficult to be a good hirer right

you think what was your what was your

think it's impossible to be a good hirer

the only best way to hire um or okay so

so the only best way to hire well is to

fire well yeah yeah yeah so because um

so the whole idea of what okay so the

whole idea of hiring is that uh in a

couple of sessions you think that you

know this person so a few dates and

you're going to get married already yeah

so in three dayses okay I'm going to

marry you for the rest of my life but

that's impossible so that's why there's

two three years then people get married

yeah right so because they know that

after 2 three years uh you kind of know

yeah after 10 years if you're not

married it's like h a bit strange right

after one day you're married also a bit

strange so there's something that's true

uh where you need to get that to know

that person so if you say like work is

my family and then you're joining my

family yeah then uh yeah actually does

lead into the marriage you're right yes

correct the family thing yes yeah then

it's forever that means after first date

uh you get married and that person

should be okay all the way you just try

to make it work by work the objective is

different the objective is not to um

even though the objective is okay I want

to get to know you you

know closeit team we know each other we

go for drinks and all that but yet the

main purpose of work is what output yeah

it is results it is that I need to go

there and you are part of my team to

help me get there MH so that's why for

work as a family it it blurs that line

and when it blurs that line then it's

like okay then decision making is going

to be quite difficult to make especially

if you need to fire somebody yes of

course because there's a lot of emotions

attached to it and that shouldn't be the

case so but the funny thing is that if

you then where is that middle ground

okay right if you think about it that

middle ground would be somewhere along

the line where I will treat you as um

well as possible and emotionally as

possible and I want to connect with you

but yet you know that if you fall short

you're

out I think I think what I I I I I feel

is important is to not Peg the whole

like office Dynamic over we are here to

be a family but we are here to be a

professionally well-run team to do

things to spec you know we are we are

here to work and Achieve something that

we can only achieve together

because we are better we are greater

than some of our parts uh because we

work very well together and then and

then that's where the efficiency comes

and then it becomes more like can you

contribute in that way to this team

Dynamic which then makes everybody

happier versus pissing some people off

versus like hey we're just family you

know you know I mean it's it's not very

it doesn't really say anything about the

work that's done so I mean that's why I

I mean like in particular for me when it

comes to a lot of the experience I've

had before there were various different

uh teams that I was with um uh when I

was with smaller Publications it really

was very very tight it it was super

tight you basically do everything

together you know go for go for meals

together you go out for events together

you work very late into the night

together yeah it really does feel

somewhat like family spend more time

with them to your family but you do

definitely you do definitely you spend a

lot more time with your most waking

hours Monday Friday correct but the

thing is that was like also not very

healthy at a certain point because you

know you kind of your work was just

fully consuming you like it was just

entirely everything about you was your

work so much so that I think this might

have happened with individuals who stay

in a job for many many many years in the

past but if you stay there for quite a

while when you decide to leave and then

you go like w what purpose do I have in

life you know what what exactly is my

calling or not say calling what does my

life even amount to because at the end

of the day my entire life was work right

uh and then oh like you know then then

now that I don't have this work it's

like oh why am I going to do my free

time that's just so weird and know you

can spend time my family oh uh oh I

haven't done that in such a long

like years yeah oh your real family oh

[ __ ] okay you know so it's it's kind of

weird I mean like fortunately a me get

out of it earlier but and then when I

worked in a larger organization about

3,000 people um then it was very

different because that's that one's very

obvious no matter how much they say we

are family right d you do not you know

you cannot have 3,000 family members

okay at the same time so you you just

you you start to detach slightly but not

in a bad way as well you start to know

how to compartmentalize your life in

terms of work in terms of what really

matters to you the Clos nit uh group

that you work with but it becomes a very

different kind of sequencing in terms of

how you look at work then I had also

another experience when I was working

with restaurants and that one's really

like very tighten it's really the kind

where like hey every anything man like

for when you work with a team of like

whether it's chefs bartenders front of

house crew and everything it's really

like everything you you do for them and

they will like back you up man this is

like like what the police comea you know

that they're going to somebody is going

to like throw smoke so that you can run

and after they little I'll hold it for

you man and then they'll do the Nicholas

Cage thing with the green the green

smoke is it Green Smoke yeah Green Smoke

I see Green Smoke they'll do that for

you yeah they will and you will do that

for them as well it's very very F but

also like you know it's different kind

of dynamic and then now where I'm

working now I mean we try our best to

keep it as professional as we can I mean

very fortunately have a chance to do

that but you I always tell the team like

you know it's really important to not

just think that it's family family

family all the time because while the

Loosely we can say family it's important

to know that the main job that I have as

a manager is to ensure that the team

works as well as possible and as

efficiently as possible to get the job

done so that they can go home and spend

time with their real families that's

that's to me the most important thing

making sure that they can go home and do

their and do their own thing and that's

something that has come down from like

it depends on who the management is as

well the management maybe doesn't see it

that way as well might be different but

fortunately my management is quite

balanced in that way so that's very

helpful so yeah but I mean I don't know

about you in your experience working

with different teams have you seen that

happen too so whenever I talk to leaders

and sometimes leaders uh um they will

say things like okay I think this person

still has chance I think I'm I'm leading

them uh not in the right way and then

they always blaming themselves because

then I then I I peel I still peel the

layers on that leaders like hey what is

the belief that you have what is the

real belief that you have is said then

it will come something to to the line of

like yeah but I I want to take care of

them you know I treat them like a family

then okay so that is the belief that you

have and because you have that belief a

lot of things like firing a lot of

things like very difficult conversations

like uh um this is already three times

and we've said this before this is our

standard that we have uh after that I'm

sorry I think there will be other places

that would suit you better that kind of

difficult conversations you don't really

have or you can't have or something's

blocking you yeah so do I do see that

that leaders um who hold on to this

whole idea of um work is my family the

people I bring in are going to be my new

um maybe if I'm the manager all my new

children I'm going to take care of them

I want know everything about their life

I want to know everything about what's

happening to them that's great in terms

of the empathy side you know okay now I

I know what's happening to your family

at home but then it's it's so difficult

to make that decision so that you're so

close then suddenly like oh if you just

don't pass that Mark that 51% you're out

yeah it's true it's true then they'll be

like but what happened to everything

else what happened to all the family

stuff you mentioned earlier so so I see

that in leaders on the other point uh

very interestingly you also know that I

went true I was in financial advisory ah

yes right and I actually joined a cult

huh in Singapore oh yeah so I'm going to

not not name it but they're still around

you joined a cult yeah so I even know

it's a cult but it was a cult oh how did

you what did you what was it what was it

positioned to you it's just an advisory

it's a professional advisory FM it's

like oh okay wow then we come in then

then instead of selling package instead

of selling financial instruments you're

selling what Souls no I they they behave

like cult but however they still did

whatever they're supposed to do the

output is still Financial advisory but

they behave like a c you come in not

kidding you come in you straight away

see the founder there and everything is

all about the founder oh okay right and

the boss are basically the boss and

everybody is like he's like a father to

us every single person says that from

the his generals to his lieutenants to

everybody down he's like a father he's

always thinking about us always wanting

the best out of us and so because of

that it permeate to every part of your

life they will he will tell you who you

can date who he will tell you who you

marry wow and he will tell you when you

should wake up and then come and then do

the exercise with him what exercise is

wait wait you say Tai oh sorry I thought

you meant like no exercises you know

like yeah and then it's like the entire

time is just like oh my goodness he's

he's always there thinking about us and

all that and this is the only way that

we can respect him back by giving our

best so he okay so if you think about

like blurring the lines that was the

most blurred and it was a very high

performing team that's the funny thing

extremely high performing and everybody

is like but when he comes in the room

everybody's like almost like K

kind yeah but they don't call him father

they call him like LA or they call him

boss but how but then that's not really

a cult yeah but oh so many things it's

very cult like no no so it's legit a c

there chance okay I don't know what what

makes were there

chantings like you if you so a few

things about okay

so no no so there are different kinds of

Cults one is that uh the person is the

supreme leader that will lead you to

eternal life got right so that's the

extreme extreme religious so this is not

the other cult is that this person uh

controls every part of your life okay

right and then the more you share with

him uh it's almost like the more you

share with him the more he wants to be

part of your life and that he wants to

know what's happening he will even tell

you what to

wear like oh this is professional this

not this is not then almost the point

where like people if you don't seek his

view you you you are you are not giving

him the respect because he cares for you

so much and everybody did that so it's

like it's almost like

d it permeated every part of your life

to a point where it's like your health

what you eat right um okay and um who

you look out for uh who you who you uh

date and things like so that was serious

that was really really I was there a

couple of years

and I was like God I was like

everybody's like what's wrong and when

you come in everybody said oh this place

is like a family we look out for each

other and he's our Father Figure and

then he's always looking out for you and

he cares for you so much and it's almost

like wow okay was there anything

negative about it though I mean there's

a lot of NE just go like besides the

fact he tells you who to date no so then

there's also a basically code of conduct

that means uh this is how you behave uh

and it's actually how did you do that

for a few years you don't like listening

to the rules song yeah which is strange

then it's like that's why it's like how

come I I it's almost like see when

people go into a cult right you're

always looking for um Utopia some kind

of utopia and a cult gives you that

Utopia because it's like it's not about

how intellectually smart you are not

it's it's about what we need as human

beings and a lot of times we need as

human beings is the idea of I want to

belong yes of course and and then a cult

gives you that great belonging and you

are set apart from everybody else so a

cult usually uh one of the keys of the

cult is that you are right everybody

else in the industry is wrong oh okay so

they keep saying that and even the

father figure this guy keeps saying that

also so it's almost like you are the

only one that's holding on to the truth

in the industry while everybody is so we

are all so in this particular one we are

all holding on to the truth and I am the

Supreme truth yes and and this is how I

see things and then he will talk about

basically that like uh a lot of things

he would do based on that and why is

that very bad is um you you the lines

become really blur that means like then

it's like yeah this is really your

family and sometimes it will go to a

point where no matter what happens to

your girlfriend wife and all that we are

here for you oh we are here it is even

more important like the number one thing

in your life is that we do well together

we fill your pockets with money yeah

doing well in financial advisory but we

also have a place where we care for you

deeply and the funny thing about this is

that c also use this whole idea of um so

this I this this other currency of

closeness to the father closeness to the

so how close can you be to me oh like

different levels of yeah so there are

different levels so what level did you

get to so I went all the way to what you

were the father

no closest are there's a group of ask

was closest then then you either get

knocked down if you don't obey so how

did you get knocked down yeah so you do

some you can do uh almost very simple

things like you didn't eat the carrot or

something that you let's say you say

that oh I think this is the better way

of doing something then you do it and

you didn't consult you're out so you get

knocked down from let's say level one

and let's say did you have names for the

levels was it just one two three no they

were just uh you can kind of see the

levels oh there's no real specifics why

wor yeah so it's like oh these are the

all the people who are closest then the

the the Father Figure will smile at you

if you're in this group if you're not in

this group Lally orile really literally

smile you he SM yeah and then the rest

like don't give a [ __ ] about you wow

yeah he smile at you yeah so it's it's

almost like um it's allergic so anyway

coming

back he will smile at you yeah I mean

he'll give you attention like like a

father like like imagine children when

they go home they want the attention

from the father or the mother right

imagine a father and mother ignores you

and sees just looks at your your and

talks to your brother entire time then

you be like he what did I do wrong then

you start going spiraling down and a lot

of people spiral down it's either they

quit or they try to get back up okay

there's a whole you right a mental abuse

of like I'm trying to get back up for

approval because he's the father and

then he's like now I've lost connection

with the father and then now I'm down

now I'm going back up now I'm down going

back up and that can go on cycles and

cycles and then you will hear success

stories of people who go back up and

it's shared with everybody oh wow yeah

so it's like wow the tale of the tale of

T aling who managed to come back out

from the exactly then it's like oh

because he obeyed and coming back

everything about currency is always

obedience 100% % obedience so that was

the blurst line I've ever seen in work

when it comes to like he's the Father

Figure there's no right and wrong his

his what he says is right and wrong yeah

but then and that was scary that was

them scary that scary but the funny

thing is that everybody uh because they

go there they get that guidance yeah and

they also make a lot of money they make

a lot of money and all that so that was

scary and and that was my experience

when it comes to this whole idea of

Father Figure and okay work as a family

and that was not work as a family what

is your family and what is the only

family you have everything else doesn't

matter exactly did you when when you

left that place was it was it difficult

to leave very difficult so usually for

Cults everybody who leaves is

excommunicated you never are a so

anybody inside talk to you you're out

also yeah so you cannot everybody seem

have very clear rules there you're very

clear so cult Cults have very clear

rules and um it's very isolated so don't

listen to anybody just listen to me and

that's where it can be very scary where

um if you if you believe that this is a

family and all that and you live by

their rules then you need follow the

rules and you get blur it's like is this

my professional life or is this my

personal life as well and he put all

efforts to make it as blur as possible

right so that you kind of know don't

know that and after I came out I

realized that there's a lot of things

that he's just hiding from all the

advisers oh all the bonuses you're

supposed to get he get oh yeah all the

trips you supposed to get he get wait

wait hang on he gets it but then

everybody still makes a lot of money

yeah so what the heck is so that means

that let's say if you're outside you're

earning 10K then um um no if you're

inside there you're earning 10K if you

go outside you're like 18K oh wow yeah

because he takes everything and then is

it's all about um I need to run this

whole family I need to run this whole

place for you it's always about you

never about him wow so that was scary

and um that was the one of the most

interesting parts of my life a few years

yeah but also the most painful wow

because like you you it everything was

blood so when I did you feel a lot of

loss when you left as well did you feel

a bit of like loss like like you weren't

sure what you were supposed to do with

your yeah definitely because your whole

life was set up for you yeah yeah yeah

they even tell you like oh this is where

you should invest your money okay I mean

you guys are financial advisor no then

then this is where we should buy this

together let's buy that together and

then they they keep you in more and more

oh so you can't leave so it's like yeah

then it's like yeah it's it's strange

then everybody oh you need to buy you

need to buy a car you should buy a car

if you're earning this amount buy a car

all right then you buy this car then

you're locked on to the two 3,000 you

need to pay then you just carry on so a

lot of people uh I they're still around

Yeah Yeah Yeah you mentioned yeah

they're still around and they're still

expanding [ __ ] and it's scary oh but

they're also doing very well for their

they're doing very well they very well

that's that's a point H like

mean they kind knock it also I mean I

don't it's not inherently bad you look

at it just for financial point of view

yeah but the the psychological part uh

does affect that person wow it's

actually quite interesting because I was

like if you know if it was a situation

where you're all locked in right and

then somehow you're also having a tough

time in terms of like you know like

you're not really doing so well or like

even if you did really well if the

father don't like you then you don't get

that much money I'm assuming something

like that might happen right there um

you did very well but you're not on the

you're not on the tier one you're not

Platinum class you're only like bronze

right then he don't get so much then he

then you know no no so he doesn't give

like things out yeah yeah so he's very

good with um keeping the money wow yeah

so the only currency which everybody's

fighting for is attention is his smile

is his smile and attention which you

think about it as a business person and

as a cult leader fantastic yeah I mean

yeah yeah it's true but then when I see

and I talk to the people who come out I

I see the the difficulty that they had

um and it's just psychological really

yeah it's psychological it's like almost

like oh my goodness I I don't know what

happened to me and some of them were 5

years 7 years and we have friends there

as well oh yeah and like really okay

yeah and it's like wow it's the it's big

so so coming back the idea of um where

work should be seen as just work yeah uh

you can have a carrying place a safe

place you can have a place where people

actually look out for you and you can

actually build good relationships that

means when you leave you can still be

like hey let's hang out for beers yeah

but they're not your family yeah and

they will um when when the when if need

be you need you they RIS cut you yeah

and that's the business yeah it's true

and to prepare ourselves psychologically

we also need to know that cutting

getting cut is normal yeah like all the

recently R layoffs thousand people and

it's like last year they said everything

was good right but it's just business

they we shouldn't be shocked it's just

normal yeah I think it's one of those

it's true I mean that also looking and

looking at your workplace is not being

uh you know a family family per se also

does help in terms of looking out for

the technically the best for yourself as

an individual right so you don't have

those attachments and those emotional to

it's okay I'll just do this because

anyway family no no no no if if this is

something's going wrong you need to be

able to be very aware that it's time for

you to maybe make a different move exit

bring it up to whoever you need to bring

it up to because also whenever you add

emotions to things sometimes you kind of

glaze certain things which which

actually should be brought up to you

know the relevant parties but yeah and

also in in if if touchwood in a

situation that you may have to be let go

or that there needs to be a departure of

some sort for for unforeseen

circumstance it makes it a lot clearer

because it's work it's not like how can

you do this to me family right how can

you do this to me it helps any

individual who's an employed staff you

know that's why I feel that it's

actually better for the team to know

that it's that this is not a family

family thing you know it's it's not

healthy it's really just not healthy

yeah so when you leave you already have

buil up that natural resistance or a

resilience to know that actually being

fired or leaving or being cut laid off

is actually very normal right no matter

what they say yeah I think I found it I

think I I I have had to develop that

over time because in the past uh like I

mentioned before when I used with

Publications and stuff like that uh

because it's such a small team you know

you everybody knows everybody and it's

very very tight in that way right you

really find it very very trouble you

find it very very troubling when you

have to have a difficult conversation

with someone you really find very

troubling when you have to either

somebody has be let go you have to be

you're going through some issues with

with with the with the whole like like

like like hitting the deadlines and

performance and everything and those

conversations get very very tricky and

then in the end the the the worst case

scenario is no not worst case scenario

one of one situation happens that people

just don't feel great another one is

just the work suffers everything just

suffers in it sense so I think that it's

good if to not I think it's very very

important to kind to keep that in mind

because I personally had to learn that

it was very difficult for me to like you

know accept that um it's okay not to

really like be damn best friends with

your with your colleagues it took me a

while to get there because yeah I found

it very difficult at first I mean there

was a time and I used to be like oh if

if I can't be friends with my with the

people I'm working how I work with them

you know but then now I'm like no I

think it's perfectly fine now I'm like

it's okay don't to be best friends don't

to even be friends as long as we both or

myself and the people around me that

have to work with we are comfortable

working together we understand what we

bring to the table we do what we're

supposed to do in the best way that we

are supposed to do and then after that

okay you can go on your your separate

ways because if you want to try and like

w then after that you can go for a Dream

no no no it's okay it's okay you know um

I'm I'm a very friendly person which is

why it's very funny when I used to say

like well I I I I didn't come here and

make friends people laugh at me and I

mean down the road obviously you know

you you would you would create some

relationships but in truth no I mean it

really it's it's meant to be a bit more

professional because it's better for

work in that way do you um did you do

you still you OB obviously don't hang

out with anybody from that from that

group anymore no okay even people who

have left yeah no so people left uh some

of them are here and there but then the

people inside is XCOM oh yeah you're

like John Wick EXC communicado oh yeah

you are like um do you have a did you

have a coin you're supposed to bring in

and then you're supposed to show no no

no did you have to no do you have a do

you have a fullback tattoo no okay no

for those of you for those of people who

are watching by the way I just just let

you know for those of you people are

watching this video Jason's hair was

like this after that happened so he

didn't suddenly get this hair because of

the cult yeah yeah that is after just to

be clear they might looking go like oh

of course he's a of course he's a cult

so no no no this was significant I don't

know how when when this was I don't

exactly know okay officially I don't

know when this is but yeah his hair was

after yeah yeah yeah we should talk

about we should do a whole session on

Jason's hair next time oh my goodness

what you what you mentioned just

now what you mentioned about friendship

is also um important to for for people

to also understand that when you place

uh certain expectation about friendship

yeah uh it really depends on who you are

personally so if you the kind of person

that you know you get a lot of energy

from people and then you like the more

energy you get from people the more you

do your a good work okay then it's very

natural for you to like I want to be

friends with everyone right right but

there are some people in life that they

don't want to be friends because they

don't get energy from people they get

energy from just doing work yeah or or

completing work more doing or being

known for good work yeah being known for

good work is what what what EXC

so then the whole idea is that how do I

sometimes people um in this category of

like I I want everybody to my friend

they they find it so great a challenge

to try to figure out how do I break this

person how do I get to know this person

how why see this person not being my

friend and being friend to somebody else

so once you go back at primary school

was like there's no logic and this is

like that there some people like because

you don't want because you don't want

that I want to yeah it's

like weird reasons and that also helps

us um as a person to be resilient and uh

as a person to be like okay hang on uh

if I now have a belief that I want to be

friends with everybody in office got it

uh that's going to not serve me very

well mhm it's going to affect me

especially if they if I give 10 they

give one back yeah right so if I have a

different belief then maybe a belief

that it's like okay there's some people

who I can reach out to and will

reciprocate and some people who don't

then you live life like okay it becomes

very it becomes smoother for you when

when at work get and then some so cuz

some of the comments I get is like can I

be friends with my boss yeah some bosses

what's your what's your some boss same

thing some bosses are like that want to

be friends so if you are my boss then

you kind of want to be p p right okay

sure right you want to I'm not sure

about you but yeah sure I mean like

seriously J said you are like but there

are some other people who like um no

matter what you you talk about your

personal life they'll be like oh okay

yeah we're done with the meeting yeah

it's like I got those situations before

I got to go uh a little bit of a

laughter but then I got to go right then

they are the kind that you cannot be

friends with them yeah no matter what

and it's okay and sometimes really it's

okay it's perfectly fine and if you look

at them it's that and the funny thing is

that when you look at them maybe when

they are with their boss they like Dam P

they you like you be like how I don't

have that exactly but maybe why is the

father not smiling on me yeah maybe

they're doing that just to get a hit

maybe maybe because they know that that

person wants that yes so some people are

loved by people above but hated by

people below

yeah yeah is that is that is is that a

thing is that a CO is that a pH of

coining or no it's just very natural and

these are people is but it's also people

who are Love by people below but ha

people above those guys get fired

basically those guys are um those guys

fight for your team fight for your team

but then you might get kicked out but

they don't know how to play the game

yeah

yeah politically play the game everybody

above likes them yeah their peers like

them but people really cannot send them

yeah

yeah yeah that's actually a real yeah

that's real problematic thing I mean I I

think yeah it's it's definitely a

situation where you're going to I think

with as you work with more and more

people you're going to really have more

and more uh situations where you will

meet different people who will think

very differently and I think like right

now I'm also facing a bit of a personal

like not not struggle but personal kind

of realization that it's come to a point

right now where I'm the old guy in the

office yeah and then I'm like having to

manage like I I I mean I think that the

team we have I'm not there's nothing

wrong with them being younger they just

were born later and and it's just

managing how their personalities are and

obviously like you know when people say

what generation get I like yo [ __ ] this

is real okay don't know half the time

I'm like wa wait did I just offend you

I'm not sure what's happening right now

I'm I'm not trying to you know like

managing that so it's a bit tricky okay

one question question I actually had was

you know the whole like we should

actually maintain a certain profession I

mean that's for me like professionalism

when it comes to our workplace and then

you kind of save any kind of like

relationships or actual friendships and

everything externally they may sometimes

you may be able to hang out with some

people here but generally it's outside

right what about individuals who don't

have friends outside work I'm I'm just

wondering this is just a thought like I

only have my work people that I know and

I hang out with outside that I don't

actually have any friends because my

work is you know maybe a kind of work

that very specific maybe it's actually

the reason why I mentioned the reason

why I mentioned that when I was

Publications when was Publications and

with the restaurant why it's was very

tight was because your hours are very

different from everybody else so uh yeah

so I'm just thinking what about those

individuals does that is it still should

we still say no to family or should we

still say like you know what do you

think yeah so um for those people who

are who are that um the there's nothing

wrong uh everything is good until it

becomes comes really wrong so for

example until you get fired yeah then

you be like oh no so what is come with a

me come with a hatchets yeah yeah so

what am I going to do my life after that

I don't have anything else I I don't

have any other friends so it's it's um

there's no one size say that okay you

should always have a community outside

because we know some people who don't

have a commun right we know from our

school that some people don't like our

school we know from our school that some

people don't hang out after sex three

sex four they don't they don't want to

see each other they don't want to see

each other they don't to do anything to

do with our school and things like that

so it's like hey um people are different

now yeah so the only danger for people

like that is that um when they get fired

or they get let go yeah uh they or they

just like to leave all their emotional

attachment is when it comes to this

whole idea of relationships and social

is all to your work team yeah and you

don't have that anymore Y and that can

cause a big blow to you huge to a point

where it might affect you it's almost

like

uh a person whose identity is part of

their work I am a doctor and that's all

I know yeah this is who I am for the for

the longest period of time and I now

suddenly because of whatever injury or

retirement I come out of that I I don't

know who I am anymore yeah totally

that's that's the only issue so whatever

the case is I mean would you say that

you would say it's best to no matter

what even like always make sure that

there some sort of community outside

work that you have whether if it can be

a small one it doesn't have to be a huge

one find something that's outside work

that you want to want to that you want

to kind of like that you do like

basically have a hobby with and

preferably have a hobby that involves a

community of people even if it's like

maybe I don't know you like making uh

you like

painting sound really

wrong I was going to say painting

Warhammer I was like I mean that's not

nothing wrong I was going to say no

there's nothing wrong with that no you

like painting Warhammer characters but

then make sure that you also spend time

with the community that likes painting

Warhammer don't just paint on your own

it could be that advice for 50% of

people is the right advice oh but the

other 50% is like I don't want to oh you

just okay yeah I just I can't I can't I

um forging relationship is so difficult

for me unless it's about work for

example and there are some people like

that how so it's it's they just need to

be aware that it's there's no right and

wrong there's no like you must have a

community outside you can't you can't

force that on people so it's of course I

can't force that on people I just this

is more of advice than forcing I'm just

saying that you know yeah so so for them

um if they find trouble finding a

community outside should they start yeah

they should start should they start no

not a cult they should start trying

maybe they have certain apprehensions of

trying to make friends with a group of

strangers I I don't know but they can

they start they can and can they start

to maybe Blossom some FS maybe not sure

but um I I wouldn't say that they should

but they should try out it's yeah okay

gotta yeah they should start trying out

I think it's actually really difficult

to as you get older it's actually really

difficult to make new friends like to be

very honest it's very very tough because

you there's a lot of stuff you besides

work right yeah besides work it's

actually really I mean of course maybe

if you in a crochet club or something

like that then new people but it's like

similar interest it needs to be a

similar and also um from what I see is

that it is more difficult for guys oh is

it than girls okay because girls kind of

feels like this feels like you might be

saying something that's going to be

somewhat sexist but go it you you say it

man I didn't say [ __ ] so it's it's

almost like um in general guys don't

really share emotions in general guys

don't really talk about their life right

so we hang out what do we talk about we

don't talk about really like oh what's

happening and all that we talk about

politics of course we always talk about

politics other things in sports so so

then the connection for guys sometimes

we don't go very deep right but for

girls it's like hey what's happening

okay let me tell you what's happening

this how I felt in work and all that so

it's it's a little bit more like um um

there's that that ease of understanding

how I feel what I'm going through but

for guys kind some sometimes guys is a

little bit more um it's difficult it's

difficult for guys to be able to just

open up yeah okay well I mean that's a

but I mean like if you look at it in

that

way uh Contra uh contrary counter to

what you're saying if it's so if guys go

very shallow in general how they how

they speak wouldn't it be easier for

them to speak to and get to know more

people yeah then the purpose of it is

just drinks I mean doesn't have it could

be it could be they could be like have

talking about like you know civil

discourse over like an

oong

T right you know like they could be

doing that I mean but it's just that it

might not be as maybe might not be as uh

as as as as deep a relationship but it's

still a relationship yeah yeah you know

possible like for example how long you

know me already 20 W it what's my middle

name serious all right

Gabriel no what you talking

about really I don't know I don't know

it's not your IC yeah I don't have one

but the fact is you didn't know that my

point is you didn't know that's what I'm

trying to say like it doesn't matter you

can be really old friends doesn't really

matter yeah so okay so to to to what

this Gabriel seriously why do I look

like middle name Gabriel kind of guy

like it's just like some Arch

Angel why why of all why Arch Angel

because Mark is like the first four by

mat joh I think my name was supposed to

be Mary you know Mary M Y yeah because

because uh because my my dad's Peter and

my brother's Paul but but that was Point

okay guess your okay yeah summarize

summarize um what should we look at uh

te what what then if we're not going to

look at uh work as a family what should

we look work as so so my thinking is

that um the best analogy I have and I

give to leaders is that it's an Olympic

team an Olympic team of four runners

games are Olympics Olympic oh yeah

sports team sports teamers 400 meter

Runners and um these are your teammates

and you are the coach Sor clarify four

100 meter runners in a relay team okay

got you not 400 met Runners yeah for 100

meter runners in a relay team so the

only reason you're in the Olympic team a

team and the reserve team is because

you're for your performance sure that's

the only let's go let's go with it right

and if you slack I slack yes then

somebody else will replace you and

everybody knows that because of the

performance you are replaced and

everybody understands that it's like yes

I didn't make the Mark I'm now on the

reserve team yeah and there's no hard

feelings about it the coach makes the

decision because the standard is there

because the goal is performance the goal

is to win Olympic goal goal Olympic goal

and if four of you are there no matter

how close you are and say you're family

or not it doesn't matter if you don't

reach that Mark you're out so that's the

best analogy and these people are

replaceable at that point of time even

though they know it's replaceable based

on performance how we treat each other

it can feel like a family it can feel

like it and you can feel like well I can

go over to your house on weekends have

uh have drinks have dinner and all that

it can feel that way and that's

humanizing it yeah and but we also know

that we are only at this a team here

yeah because of our results that's the

only reason you're there if not you're

on a B team or you're on another team

yeah that's that's doing like

discourse let's just

say and that's the only reason why you

should be there you're there because of

your performance and that qualifies you

to be in The A Team right representing

the country right how we how we treat

each other country inconsequential yeah

we can treat almost like when somebody

looks at hey wow you look like so

tight-knit as a family and then if this

person is injured his leg is like kind

of sprain on something somebody takes

over same we can still carry on feeling

like a family feeling Clos Nick but the

only reason you're there is because of

results that's true I mean I I think

what is your what is what other ways do

you I think that one of the things okay

sorry one of the things I got to mention

one of the things that I think uh many

uh people getting into the workforce

right now always missing especially

those people who just started working

maybe about 3 years ago was that whole

connection with other human beings just

connection with other human beings

because of the whole work from home

situation uh not being able to feel that

Community you know that that kind of

community in in in in it's very in human

interaction and that caused a lot of

burnout so I would say that while you're

looking at things like this is this is

performance is why you are in this team

is why we're pushing for and you know

that one person doesn't perform you need

to find somebody who will that's more on

the when you're talking about like

really like Tech teams Peak Performance

pushing out I think it's more about

create it's more about it's more about

showcasing that this space that you're

in or what we're not family family per

se but we have we are a group of we are

a community with the same values that

you have MH because that kind of helps

in terms of um building that uh

like-mindedness in terms or like that

that that's single-minded Focus towards

what we're trying to do and usually that

those values are quite important in

terms of how you personify them so yours

is a little bit more like boom you know

like like tip of the spear right M

talking about as a larger kind of entity

how you want to kind of build out like

these are our real values that we really

do push and none of them actually talks

about family it talks about respectful

respecting each other it talks about you

know causes that we believe in pushing

for things that or like outcomes that we

want to hit uh and a certain standard of

work that we want to meet and stuff like

that you and and stuff like those

aspects and these are just broad ones

are not specifically where I'm give us

broad ones so I think that building or

ensuring that people understand that

that is the community you you're you're

creating will en will help to kind of

build a stronger kind of team that works

together whether or not whether they are

the front Salesforce or the people who

are working on procurement or the people

who are handling like uh management

about logistics or anything it depends

you know because some might not realize

the their importance in the whole role

if they not the obvious right in front

selling or right in front like you know

pitching and everything there are so

many other roles that are important but

if everybody has the same like-minded

focus and it doesn't have to be grand

and ridiculously crazy you know about

the story about the what Kennedy was at

the NASA place I think I talked about it

before Kennedy went to NASA and then he

saw this guy sweeping the floor yeah the

janitor and he said what are you doing

I'm putting a man on the moon that kind

of thing like everybody knows why

they're there right I think it was a

Simon son thing that was start with why

my God that guy books

yeah anyway also what you're saying is

that um on the broader aspect um this is

just one team correct the Olympic team

there are five other teams where we grow

and nurture people to become there

correct or they're all working on

different they're all doing different

different categories or different uh so

different parts so one could be for in

the sports team is there nutrition pH

physio they different there support I

was actually thinking different like uh

event like one is on high Jam but I but

you're thinking like everybody will

towards this fall still the same goal

yeah still the same goal go yeah and

then uh yeah you can you can still build

the community you can still build that's

more of um that's more of like if you

run really like uh say say that that's

like the way of life of um how we live

how we see things it's more of the way

of life versus the versus so versus less

so about the whole like performance so

here exactly but I do feel that that is

more of how we want things to run but

you are you are at the door and you're

only allowed in the door because of your

performance still yeah yeah yeah yeah I

get still comes back down it still comes

back to and the funny thing is that if

you're a c player in this whole a group

yeah and you are let go you might find

your home in a C team and be super happy

and everybody's a C team and everybody's

there and like you found your home yeah

but maybe they might be C team in a

specific sense but then in the sense

that and that in the when we look at it

at The A Team B Team C team and

everything we might say oh c team's not

so good but in truth it's not really to

say A C team is it's just a different

team it's a different team it might just

be you need a different set of people to

work with you best analogy I have for

this is like um a professor in

university is not better than a

kindergarten teacher wow really

yeah you're not better we say better how

better no better than no better in terms

of like like teaching better in terms of

like yeah so they're all teaching kids

okay uh all children they're all

teaching different kinds of children one

likes to like be challenged for example

example and maybe the nurturing part is

lower while a kindergarten teacher

nurturing is higher okay right but

they're still part of the team they're

still part of a um there's a spectrum of

people so when you say that a team and C

team yeah you can be very happy in

different areas it's just different kind

of challenges that you want yeah because

at the day it's not about really like

the it's not about peak in the

conventional sense of it it's your

personal Peak right for kindergarten my

my love for the children and my my

wanting to take care of them and like

groom them even though they can't like

ask me a very difficult challenging

question that's fine but to a professor

he wants those kind of people so it's

different and I think it's fine I'm not

sure whether I would go so far as

professor in kindergarten teach okay I

see where it coming from I see where

coming from but the the no disrespect to

kindergarten teachers no no no

disrespect because they all they can be

all um to a professor they might see it

as like I I don't want to to coach these

people right because um maybe I I want

challenges and for him the professors

that challenges make me at my best and I

want that right and if I don't have

challenges I don't want to that's why

some people some teachers would thrive

in different areas you can't say that a

kindergarten teacher is not a good

teacher there are great teachers there y

right and then a professor is also a

great teacher it's just depending on the

person himself yeah I get you man yeah

okay well I think we got to wrap up man

you need to you need to go already okay

all right so the [ __ ] was that

ending yeah I mean like what talk about

next time do you know don't know yet man

Donuts right okay thank you for the chat

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