TRANSCRIPT

Becoming a Chef & Restaurant Owner - Bjorn Shen (MasterChef Singapore) | The CJH Podcast EP4

*Captions are taken directly from YouTube and may not be 100% accurate

[Music]

all right okay so welcome everybody we

have bianchen uh here

and let me just share a little bit about

him he is Chef and owner of artichoke

and Smalls uh Master Chef Singapore

judge for Four Seasons

you okay

Chef consultant had done work for a lot

of different people one of them is low

in boho group they did a rooftop bar if

you can remember at Loof develop

seasonal specials for four fingers

develop menus for Sodexo help to open

different restaurants in uh in Indonesia

as well he was also CNA documentary host

savoring the future of the show maybe

you can check it out I didn't even know

that he was lecturer at the colony

Institute of America as well he was also

ex-timeout magazine columnist chef of

the Year Singapore ever been awarded

best local Chef as well and attitude was

awarded best casual restaurant in

Singapore when was that uh 2021 awesome

okay so honor for him to be here to

share with us about his life story and

also this whole idea of our passion so

beyond thank you for being here my

pleasure my pleasure guys

first things first well we I want to

find out from you when when was the time

that you actually realized that I want

to be a chef

was it the first Maggie me that you ate

or what okay so a lot of people I guess

uh find themselves a lot later in life

yeah and that's what my experience with

a lot of people right uh for me I don't

know if it's because I lucked out or

what but I knew from the time I was very

young

so literally primary school I already

knew I wanted to be a chef impossible

how how I knew okay like so I I mean No

One Believes Me and I don't know if I've

exaggerated it over the years to a point

where I believe in myself right now I

believe I believe people have said that

when you're young some most of the

people be like okay I want to be a

teacher when I'm young I believe in that

but I mean what happened like so my kids

right now are telling me they want to

work with animals like my daughter's

like sick she's like I want to be a vet

I believe her because when I was six I

told my mom I want to be a snowman

okay and my mom just laughed it off okay

which I don't I don't blame her for

doing that and then she asked me again

the very next year and I said I want to

be a rice cooker

and in my mind when I said rice cooker

what I meant was the person cooking rice

because that's my infantile

understanding of what's a chef okay it's

the person cooking rice in the kitchen

because you always say you know oh I'm

going to cook rice yeah you play here

for a bit I'm gonna go cook rice you

know so I wanted to be the rice cooker

and I'd always follow my mom into the

kitchen and my mom is not an elaborate

cook or anything she's very functional

sort of cook right yeah

um

and she just you know cooked for us to

survive right yeah and I'll just be very

interested in her doing very basic

things like just washing rice so from a

young age in order to get me out of her

hair she put me to work washing the rice

and she'd say and I'll say when is it

done she says it's done when the water

is no longer milky and you know how rice

I mean how many times you rinse it still

murky right so that's her strategy of

getting me out of her hair for a very

long time so I'm standing there at a

sink washing rice for like 45 minutes

and the water was still a bit pale I'm

like no it's not done yet one more time

in this one it's 57th time uh until all

the rice was broken uh so

yeah I mean so you really knew I knew

that I was very interested in the

process of or in what was going on in

the kitchen and this was around six

years already this was about six years

old so I always enjoyed watching her she

was frying omelettes and cooking rice

and stir-frying vegetables and all that

uh when everyone was like you know when

all these kids in like 10 years old 12

years old were like reading porn and and

and comics and all that I was reading

cookbooks I was reading my mom's

cookbooks right right that was my Pawn

right oh my goodness I was reading these

cookbooks from like cover to cover and

then I would start putting pencil put

the star on the one that I wanted my mom

to cook for me you know okay so break it

down for me

um it is the act of cooking it is the

savoring of the food it is the art of

pleating what was it it was it the

transformation yeah of what went in the

pan and then came out of the pan for me

that was magic for me that was that was

like life changing wow how can it go in

looking like that and come out looking

like something else and then I eat it I

can actually put it in my mouth and I

can [ __ ] it out after that yeah right I

mean I was absolutely fascinated by that

process of cooking so you know like I

said when all these other kids were you

know playing with comics and watching

pornos reading cookbooks and watching

afternoon TV I don't know if anyone from

the 80s remembers but on the afternoon

at 4K it was always Yen can cook yes Yen

can cook those can harm there was all

these orgies emerald and all that on TV

and there were these afternoon TV sort

of chefs and I was just watching

enthralled right I mean that was what

got me off at the time right

um and I was just very into it but there

was a break between that and actually

doing it for a career because obviously

at the time you're not thinking about

Korea right no so you know you're just

thinking about oh what do I want to be

when I grow up but yeah don't think of

it as a career as a job as an employment

right so

I always knew I like to cook and then

moving into secondary school and then JC

you know during the JC like class

barbecues and all that you know you you

have these things right close barbecues

I was always the guy you know uh

grilling the chicken and I was always

making decisions on okay what should we

get for the class barbecue or the

reunion party that sort of thing that

everyone else would get pissed off at me

because I was controlling the barbecue I

know I don't touch this don't touch it

it's not ready to flip yet you know

how's that okay how's that Nazi on the

on the barbecue yeah yeah and everyone

leave him alone you know so I was like I

still did not know I could be a chef for

a living okay so you okay so you know

that you are interested in cooking right

I knew I was interested in cooking yeah

it was going to be like a lifelong hobby

okay got it and I knew that I wanted to

do a lot more of it and I wanted to have

cooking in my life but I never meet that

connection between

doing all that cooking and actually

cooking for a profession yeah yeah so

come JC you know I was thinking what to

do next and all that I actually wanted

to go to La cell and study design I

wanted I was very interested in interior

design you got to be kidding no I was

can you know I mean we knew each other

from Secondary School right so I don't

know if you realize this anyone no you

were drawing ridiculous things on

Chinese textbooks right so I mean two

hobbies in secondary school in terms of

drawing I was very good at drawing

penises yes all right I was drawing

penises on everyone's textbook I

probably Drew penises guaranteed uh

definitely okay if it's not on my

textbook it's on the SEC for leaving one

confirm confirm right because somebody

drew a cross on my face put two eyes and

then them them a lot of penises massive

penis okay so I was great at drawing

business I was great at drawing in

general my Channel all of it to penises

right and I remember that you know I

would hijack someone's textbook before

they went home just Out steal it from

their back just before they went home so

that I had their textbook the whole

afternoon and I would draw hundreds of

penises all over the textbook and I'll

cover all the important diagrams so they

couldn't revise for exams right all over

the textbooks I remember I did it to a

few people and then they would realize

only when they got home that the

textbook was missing I'll give it back

to them the next day it's not a super

quiet people alone no no not necessarily

yeah I mean me and Marcus would do that

to other people you know uh yeah so

we're drawing dicks on everyone's books

okay so that was one interest drawing

dicks so drawing dicks and then if I

wasn't drawing dicks I was drawing like

3D interior renderings

I actually had rulers and you know

protractors and all that sort of stuff

like draw 3D images of rooms and spaces

and wow I mean I don't do it anymore but

I was very interested in 3D drawings at

the time okay but how did that interest

come about reading Home and Decor

magazine

okay so besides cookbooks you read Home

and Decor I mean my mom has no my mom

never forced me in any direction yeah

but I feel as if I just took the

magazines and books that she owned it I

found a way to turn them into my

interests okay you know I wasn't just I

you know I was never in the comics and

all that I was never into cartoons and

comics and things that other kids were

into everyone in our school was playing

soccer I didn't give a [ __ ] about soccer

right same still don't give a [ __ ] about

soccer no disrespect soccer is a great

game I'm just not interested right I was

interested in other things like drawing

dicks and interior design okay for a 15

16 year old kid yeah so for me I knew I

could make a profession out of that so I

wanted to go and you know like um enroll

myself in La cell or NAFA you know for

for these things this is what after a

level this is after me on it I mean I

already kind of wanted to do it after

all levels but you know my mom was like

no no no no you gotta go to JC and all

that right yeah you know being that

conservative Asian parent yes like if

you do well enough to get JC then you

may as well go to JC right yeah so

okay so I went to JC here I like okay

fine I'll do my own thing after I've

done JC yeah so

you know then you go to Army yeah and in

Army you're still planning what's gonna

do when you finish Army yeah so yeah I

was looking up all these programs like

you know La sell programs for interior

design or product design industry they

call it industrial design okay my cousin

was like maybe about six years older

than me yeah uh did this thing called

industrial design in rmit and he won so

many awards and he actually you know

there was a very famous designer Mark

Newson and his project got picked up by

Mark Newson to turn into life and he was

like the pride and joy of the family at

the time you know wow Rey's project got

picked up by Mark Newson you know uh so

I want to be like my cousin man my

cousin's cool I want to be I'll be like

if you listen you know I'm gonna be like

you you know uh

I want to go and pursue interior design

or you know industrial design yeah and

then

our friend Alex yip oh yeah yeah Alex

who was a classmate of ours right yeah

he said to me Beyond you like cooking

right yeah

you cook all the time at parties you

throw these parties at home trying to

impress girls and all that why don't you

just be a chef

like what

ah what Chef what what Chef he's like

yeah yeah I mean you don't have to be a

designer right you're looking through

all these like you know school books and

all that like which school you're gonna

go to and study design like why aren't

you just go be a bloody chef

yeah I'm like you mean you can do that

you know so I'm like suddenly it opened

up my mind to a whole Avenue that was

there I never realized beautiful that

was the first time that was the first

time that was the first time like oh you

know I actually gave it some thought I

gave it something yeah I gave it

something I'm like hey [ __ ] you know

what am I doing fussing around looking

at design stuff when

you know the chefing thing is a little

bit more directly in front of me yeah so

I said how do I do that yeah see just

gotta go and work first right that's

what I work first so he said hey I know

this uh I know this Cafe owner you know

I

um he's got a cafe in uh tanglin mall

it's called The Outsider Cafe

why don't I hook you up with him and you

go and uh get a job there straight from

NS yeah and then you figure it out you

know if you like it then you go cooking

school instead of design school you know

yeah yeah so I'm like yo you mean you

can do that right so he hooked me up

with this guy Jack right he said I'll

give you his number his name is Jack

yeah give him a call you know and just

offer yourself yeah go down for an

interview one day and true enough I

didn't have a resume I mean fresh out of

NS nothing yeah I mean I've had

part-time jobs before this right

cleaning fish tanks and selling

postcards and all that but yeah I never

had a full-time job so obviously I

didn't have a resume so stupid me I went

down for my first interview I brought a

photo album

of of pictures of food that I cooked

that's good enough this was like

photographs that you printed out at the

time yeah we got to remind people how

long ago this was right 35 cents that's

like a Kodak that kind of like film yeah

that kind of [ __ ] enough for me that was

like avant-garde I'm bringing my

portfolio right sorry we're not the

jagging uh show Jack hey Jack nice to

meet you you know my name is Bjorn

introduced through Alex yeah you know

I'm looking for a job I want to try out

what it's like being a chef here's my

portfolio

he looked at it he's like interesting

so backtrack a little bit you actually

documented it

in my mind I wouldn't have photographed

the things that I enjoy unless I kind of

know that I I want to build a portfolio

or what was happening in your mind when

you knew that hey actually this would

come in handy I was just like oh nowhere

look I mean people take selfies right

people take photos or like occasions I

used to take photos of my food

I had a little shitty 99 camera

somewhere yeah you know film camera

right and you take photo of the food

since when was it since Primary School

secondary school I mean since the day I

was like poking a bit more seriously

like which is which was maybe like SEC

four on which second one with you

started to you know take photo when you

know when you started getting part-time

jobs like earning salary right a salary

even though it's like 250 an hour or

whatever right you spend some money you

invite some friends over yeah like I

said I want to impress the girls yeah so

I have a party at my house you know cook

something

uh MGS anything yeah okay any school you

know uh but yeah scgs especially no no

no no you know uh so yeah and then I

just start taking photos of the food

like but it's interesting I mean like to

think that you would want to take photo

of it and well it's it's amazing so okay

so you set up your portfolio yeah and

you didn't even know it's a portfolio

you just enjoyed taking food uh it was

your pride and then you just wanted to

take photo of it yeah yeah okay just

happily brought down that album for uh

then what happened for Jack and he's

like okay so uh well we don't have any

space for chefs but if you want

you can uh start at the dishwashing

station we need someone to help with

making drinks and washing dishes okay I

don't know why those two were combined

together one job description I don't

know which other company combines those

two professionally but that's how it

worked back then so I'm like

how much you pay yeah it's like 450 an

hour

like

okay but that gets me in the kitchen

right it's like yeah if you know one day

I can work my way up from there yeah he

was like yeah of course but you got to

start here because that's where we need

you know uh a pair of hands at the

moment we don't need we don't need a

chef yeah you don't need a Coke you know

I'm like yes I'll take it thank you very

much

shook his hand and I went back home and

I told my parents I got a job as a chef

and my parents were obviously not

convinced because they said look you

know don't be a chef you know there's a

lot of stigma about being a chef right

as there was with being an interior

designer to be very honest with you I

mean uh while it is you know a lot of

artistic professions today are revered

and respected this I'm talking about 25

years ago right where your interior

designer was someone operating out of a

small office you know all run-down

shopping mall you know uh being type or

contractor

yes it was your poach there was only

like the very small amount of like you

know I guess uh what would you call them

uh

yeah okay but it's just a very small

minority that were actually revered for

their craft okay everyone else was like

yeah who took a few measurements and

designed you a cabinet or what you know

so that was the impression of being an

interior designer and your integration

of being a chef was you know some guy in

a white uniform squatting at the back

eating lunch and smoking cigarette at

the back alley you know or or Not

educated yeah can't do it came out of

prison

no it could be yeah no because I mean

that's where a lot of people fresh out

of prison go to because no other jobs

will take that yeah yeah so so it's it's

more of um if you are educated go get a

degree and do something that is White

Collar White Collar aircon things like

that right

um physical yes uh maybe maybe you don't

consider that yes that's what parents do

exactly exactly I mean and I don't blame

them for that the world has changed very

much and we respect a lot of blue

collared professions what we understand

is traditionally Blue Collar professions

today but 25 years ago that was not the

case yeah you know if you came from a

family that was privileged enough to

give you an education you better get a

white collar job yes you know you better

not coming home smelling like onions

yeah you know okay so um so you to your

parents I told my parents look you know

let me prove to you that I want this

because you know as a young Asian kid

growing up you still want your parents

validation even though you're you know

at the age of 18 or 20 or whatever yeah

you know and you can make your own

decisions you still want to make a

decision that they're gonna approve yeah

in some way so I said let me prove to

you that I got what it takes and then I

will stay the course

so I worked as a dishwasher

straight out of NS with no further

education for 450 an hour where most of

the time I was washing dishes right I

was making coffee and I was stacking

shares after work just to you know clean

up and close on the place uh and I

literally smelled garlic every night

going home and no one wanted to sit next

to me on the bus okay so that's how I

was for a good six months

so one day one day the head chef calls

up work calls Jack and says hey Jack you

know um

this was like a Friday right he calls

Jackson says hey Jack you know is there

any way you can give me a raise because

you know I'm having some financial

difficulties and I hope that you can

give me a raise in general Sam you know

why don't you come to work and talk

about it yeah Jack was like no no no no

you I want you to promise me over the

phone you know if not I can't come into

work today

threatening okay Jack if you don't give

me a raise I'm not going to come in okay

and you're gonna have one hell of a

weekend without me

and Jack didn't cave in is I'm not

negotiating with terrorists if you want

to come come if you don't want to come

piss off right right and you see you

call me back in five minutes and tell me

whether you're gonna come in and talk to

me okay and he didn't hear back from the

chef

and he came into the kitchen and said

everyone move up want to rank and I was

in the middle of like washing some

butter knives or whatever I'm like

I was like

you know like

yes so I got promoted few promotional

because uh the guy left my first

promotion my first professional

promotion

towards the end of my six months there

yeah started cutting garlic and chili

and onions and started doing prep like I

said you know cooking pasta dishes and

yeah setting up the soup station and all

that

so that was like big for me right you

know how do you feel when when you

suddenly was able to do that oh massive

I mean like I said my first promotion

you know uh and I didn't think it'd come

so soon

I enjoyed washing dishes I still enjoy

washing dishes yeah it's very

therapeutic you know only when you know

people throw in like steak knives and

all that into the water that I cut

myself that's not fun but apart from

that it was quite therapeutic all right

so that was your break that was my break

yes first first break in the real world

yeah yeah cooking things helping out

correct okay but then going back to my

parents you know so six months in I said

look I'm still in it yeah I'm actually

cooking now I liked you last time I

wasn't a chef I was a dishwasher for the

first few months but now I'm really a

chef right yeah

[Music]

you know you've proven to us that this

is not just a passing phase because they

like they like to brush it off as always

just going through a phase yeah yeah

right

it's like okay I'll kill if you really

wanted to go culinary school then fine

you know fine go to culinary school okay

so they allowed me to go to culinary

school and then I just went and that's

the rest of it

so you went to coloring school at

Australia yeah in Australia okay yeah

and how do you even know about the

culinary school in the first place uh

one of my Army buddies his name is David

Hing who ended up being the first

founding executive chef of food for

thought here in Singapore oh okay he was

my good army buddy and he finished Army

like six months before six months before

me yeah and he went to the school first

okay uh Steve in New South Wales right

uh uh and uh he went there and he gave

me a breakdown of the course and he told

me what to expect and all that I'm like

yeah okay you know you know how in

Singapore I mean sounds privileged and

all that but you know when parents

help their kids with tertiary education

yeah if you come from a family that's

you know

privileged enough yeah that's very

common yeah so yeah I I did have that

privilege of my you know family being

able to help me with my potential

Education costs so I went to culinary

school yeah

um and I dropped out to him

really so I dropped out with a certain

one okay so you you know the way it

works is you get set one set two set

three and then after set three you do

another six months you get your diploma

so I dropped out off the third one

how

of my own choosing okay I think we've

all been 21 years old and dumb yeah uh

thought we knew better

I thought I knew better because on the

side I was working for all these fancy

chefs no in Australia in Australia

I was working on the sign I was

schooling a few days a week and working

a few days a week on the side and I was

working for these fancy shifts and I

just thought hey

you know I kind of go to culinary school

so that I can eventually work for these

people but if I'm already working for

these people part-time yes then no

difference no difference I might as well

just save the money yeah and go and work

right now

and the truth is I wasn't actually

working I was blocking herbs these

celebrity chefs didn't even know who I

was they even know my name I was in the

back of the kitchen plucking herbs and

taking out the trash and doing all the

[ __ ] jobs that no one else was doing but

I was loving it yeah so I decided to

just quit culinary school at a time and

continue working and uh

yeah happy days I mean this was the time

where Australia was giving out PR as

like water okay if you had a relative

who lived in Australia they were like

citizens of good standing you know they

could sponsor you you know yeah so I got

in very early I got in very early

you got anywhere to Australia as a PR

okay yeah so I was able to just continue

continue working over so if you didn't

get PR you had to agree yeah

okay so because you got PR yeah you

continued working so share with me

when you how does that work that means

you're you're studying and then you were

working part-time yeah yeah was it for

money or experience or you just wanted

to be near those people near the kitchen

no I just I mean it was my professional

I mean I was earning money that was my

source of income yeah you know and I

enjoyed it okay I enjoyed it okay so

after you quit 20 after 20 months yeah

you carry on those restaurants three

months I quit after three months of

culinary school not 20 months three you

got to be kidding three months did

everything I did everything I got a

certain one yes highest education level

third one you set up everything you set

up shop there for the next supposed to

be for what three years I mean it was

supposed to be like two years and then

after three or three months yeah

and then so so tell me so now you are

you have finished third one

where are you now you are in these three

restaurants five restaurants you're just

doing everything or what no it's just

and continue working and then uh

so bored yeah you know like I said

everyone's been 21 years old in in in

hyperactive in the body and mind yeah

after like a few months of doing I'm

like [ __ ] my highest education level the

same one yeah you know well that's not

it's not great about you so I'm like

okay maybe I should go to university

[Laughter]

so I went to University

yeah and University in what I ended up

deciding to go to university in

hospitality

hospitality and tourism so I moved State

I moved to Queensland went to the

University of Queensland in Brisbane

City and studied hospitality and tourism

management hoping that one day it helped

me become a better Chef Lord it helped

me rise up the ranks inside the kitchen

to you know f b director of some big

Regional

Hospitality Hotel chain or whatever you

know yeah I thought that was the most

relevant sort of degree program okay to

all my cooking experience right yeah

right by then I just forgot all about

the design thing yeah so you know if

anyone's wondering I forgot all about

the design okay okay so you stop after

three months you started you continue

working and a few months later I'm like

you decided to go to university yeah

instead of hospitality yeah okay then

and the passion for cooking does it

continue it continues because you know

like I said I was already a PR yeah so I

was able to work part-time okay I mean

sorry I was able to study part-time and

work full-time okay so I continued

working through my universe it is

yeah continue working through my

University days I spent the longest time

working at uh at a cafe near my house it

was a Greek Cafe so I mean it was a

modern Australian Cafe but the head chef

was Greek you know uh and when the head

chef is of a particular ethnicity the

food and the menu also kind of has that

sort of uh Cuisine embedded into it

right so it was a modern Australian Cafe

with a lot of Greek dishes on it

interesting yeah so you're working

part-time are you working full-time

studying part-time

sometimes I was studying full-time

working part-time sometimes I decided to

like take it easy you know go to

university part-time work more hours

that's okay okay so I was working in a

few places I was working in 7-Eleven I

was working at the restaurant I was

selling fake uh fake Von Dutch caps on

eBay until I got caught by FBI uh so

yeah my my house was very interesting

right my housemate uh fellow Singaporean

guy at the time uh he had this Factory

he had he made friends in University he

was Chinese guy yeah whose Uncle ran a

factory in China who that was making

Wilson tennis rackets okay and he they

would take the rejects the ones who

slide defects and they would ship it to

him and he would sell it on eBay yeah

for like a fraction of the price of an

actual Wilson tennis racket and he would

admit on his description that this got a

slight effect or just a slight Factory

but he was making so much money okay so

I fasted okay I I need to outdo my

housemate I need to sell some I need to

sell something as well right so I found

like these like bulk sellers of like for

Dutch camps that were obviously fake for

Dutch caps

so I used to put up this listing vanduka

it's purposely spell it wrongly

fondue cabs and you know brand new ones

real ones were going on for like 50

bucks yeah I was selling mine for 25

bucks so in my mind it was obviously

fake you know it's fake when you buy it

it's too good to be true right yeah but

then I got caught by the FBI one day

I don't know if it's true a lot but

anyway I logged into my account one day

I was making quite a good amount of

money on the site uh I got logged into

my account one day and it says your

account has been suspended the FBI has

caught you uh uh engaging in counterfeit

x uh and we will be following up shortly

oh my oh [ __ ] I tell you I lived the

next few weeks in like in fear yeah I

actually moved out for a few weeks I

moved out for a few weeks and I lived

with a friend yeah I lay low for a while

I literally moved yeah I moved I stayed

with a friend in Gold Coast yeah I

didn't want to be at home just in any in

case anyone came to like arrest me yeah

it's just dumb and you actually just

moved it and and moved house permanently

but I didn't and I just kept quiet about

it and when I thought the course was

clear I came back and nothing happened I

got I can't suspended that's it okay so

I never went to jail for that that's

good yeah sorry guys I was cooking

kitchens I was working at 7 11 late

night time things hustling I was just

hustling yeah yeah so he finished degree

came back to Singapore or whatever no

I wasn't one of the most studious guys

in class right yeah I was in fact I was

the guy like skipping a lot of lectures

and okay and all that and I always you

know rock in at the back of the lecture

hall sit at the back so I could leave

early and all that yeah so I was a [ __ ]

student

I was a [ __ ] student but somehow I

graduated on the Deans on a roll okay

which in my understanding means that

you're like top percentile yeah so I'm

like oh maybe this is a superpower that

I had but I never knew about like how

was this I felt bad for all those

Studios friends of mine right but how do

you even get a dean's list if you're a

[ __ ] student

I feel as if I understood how to answer

exam questions and you write essays

okay I feel as if I found a parallel

route to results okay that other people

struggled with because I feel bad for

the people who actually studying who

were like mugging and studying and

putting all their best efforts in the

schoolwork and sitting at the front of

the class and taking all these notes I

had no notes right but I kind of felt

like I might have cracked the code

somehow by just framing my answers in a

certain way

so I'm like [ __ ] this is cool okay does

this have anything to do with your

passion for cooking and all that was

that the could it be empathy where

Hospitality was all about empathy and

where you were able to put yourself in

that person's shoes no no what is the

crow what is the code I think it's

because I was just two and a half years

older than everyone else around me

because as you know in Singapore

so that you know we we come in as a

Singaporean overseas student or whatever

right yeah you go to overseas University

or immediately two to three years okay

older than everyone else around you and

therefore you know your mind may be a

little bit more cunning or you know you

just might you just might be a bit of a

better con man like you know okay okay

so I felt like I was useless I felt like

how the [ __ ] did I just do this right so

I'm like okay maybe it's a special power

that I have is I mean I can cast

Fireballs I'd even know about it so I'm

like okay so I'm gonna do it again and

test whether I can do it again so I

signed up for a master's degree

what because you know what it barely

cost anything okay you are on local fees

yeah I wasn't on international student

visas on local fees I could sign up for

a master's pornography series your PR

signing up for months that's fine and I

was working on the side I was earning

all this money selling all these fake

captions

you know so I'm like okay let's sign up

and see what I can get on Dean's honor

roll again

what do you have and what happened

oh my goodness and what do you masses in

what I decided to do a Masters in

Business

Masters in Business so the

specialization in consumer psychology

and marketing okay so I did that and I

actually enjoyed this time when I was in

my masters I actually enjoyed myself you

know like I thought what I was studying

was very relevant okay and I actually

enjoyed certain subjects very much right

so

I graduated on the team's honor roll

again oh my goodness even though I spent

most of my masters like studying

part-time and working full-time

okay all right now I don't think I'm

clever yeah I still don't think I'm that

clever I'm not bragging here I I don't

think I'm that clever I'm compared to a

lot of my friends I'm quite but dumb

yeah I'm quite slow to grabs certain

things but you crack I feel as if I

found a way to crack okay the university

system of like how you

you know make how you do presentations

how you write reports and essays and all

that right I mean University education

there's no multiple choice exams it's

all about you know qualitative answers

and I found that I could I was a smooth

talker in that sense okay okay you know

so as a smooth talker on paper you know

so I'm like sure okay so after Masters

like okay then I go do a PhD you gotta

be kidding me no no okay so I said okay

dude I gotta try this again

superpowers right

so I started searching for a supervisor

take me on for a PhD and then I already

had all these research topics in mind

and the one supervisor that I mean who

was my mentor in in University he was my

lecturer all the way from like my

undergrad days and all that yeah and he

said to me

I still keep in touch with him and he

said to me and I'm beyond you're a

[ __ ] idiot

right you're doing all this for fun yeah

right yeah that's it don't make it don't

make a fool of yourself yeah go out

there and get your work experience and

then come back if you want to do a PhD

and I'll be ready for you at the time

okay but if you do this as a joke right

now I'm not part of this with you okay

you know he said that you'll end up as a

young guy with zero full-time work

experience apart from being a chef who

then holds a PhD and no one's going to

respect you right or everybody will

respect you no he said no one's going to

respect you because you don't come from

any industry grounding right if you're

if you want you want to do as a PhD in

let's say marketing because I've only

been a chef I've never worked in a

marketing yeah right so you sit Beyond

tough love here no I'm not supervising

your PhD okay you either find someone

else

or you go out there and you get a

smudger work experience as you can and

then come back for your PhD

so I'm like oh that hit very hard all

right okay and uh

I came back and I said okay you know

time to uh

time to do uh what I gotta do which is

work full time and I thought what's the

fastest way to get work experience and

life experience and then go back and do

my PhD

so you you didn't think about being a

chef full-time at a palm time setting up

a restaurant or anything by then I was

already thinking you know uh towards the

end of my Master's days I was actually

um working as a research assistant in

University I moved out of the kitchen

and with that lecture his name is

Richard Robinson I was his assistant I

was setting up tests for him I was doing

research work for him and all that I was

earning more money

um as a research assistant don't don't

really understand so you you had a

passion for for cooking yep and suddenly

you have this superpower I've discovered

yeah for some strange reason you are

able to hack Academia yeah and you kind

of went full on with that yeah and one

thing to go further yeah until your

Seafood says screw it go back and then

do something correct correct

so I was addicted to the success to The

Accidental success and I kept going so I

quit my job in the restaurant yeah right

and I started working in Academia I was

a research assistant so you could

actually would you could actually have

that sliding door moment where you could

be just Academia on the way yeah I could

have but then

lucky for me I mean I had someone

slapped me on here and say you're an

idiot right go and work in marketing in

something else you've only been a chef

go and work for something else so where

do you work

so I thought okay let's come back to

Singapore for the restaurant

let's come back to Singapore and do

something so I came back to Singapore

and I you know I said you know if I can

open something on the Jeep I'll open

something on the cheap like you know I

had us you know like I said I was

selling fake for Dutch camps I was

working 7 11 38 bucks an hour overnight

right the dangerous shift yeah right so

I had some savings right I I you know to

be honest with you I had about 100 over

Grand Savings right in in like eight

years of being there yeah I came back

and I'm like okay you know if I can set

something up for like you know 80 grand

100 Grand I didn't know how much it

costs right sorry this number 300 Grand

sounded like a lot right you know so I

was came back and I started working

actually ended up very well so I needed

money obviously yeah so I came back to

Singapore and I ended up doing part-time

work I was like flipping eggs at a place

called hatched

so I was working part-time at hatch I

was like working like four days a week

or whatever right now spending the last

one two days a week looking for places

to open a restaurant okay and again just

to remind everyone how early this was

how long ago this was I couldn't even

search for restaurants on the internet

this was classified ads in the

newspapers yeah I was flipping open and

he classifieds ads every day and

highlighting numbers that I would then

phone up these would be business owners

or uh or real estate agents or what and

inspecting places so I worked at a hatch

for like nine six to nine months I

forgot a lot but I was working there

like four days a week six you know for

about six months or so

and then

the owner of hatch came to me one day

and said you know hey Beyond you know

um

my my friend's restaurant is moving out

of this space and it's a great space and

if you're looking for a little cafe to

open

why don't I put you in touch with him

and that's how it happened so I was put

in touch with uh this guy Paul who used

to run a restaurant called Secret Garden

in the space where artichoke is at today

and he was moving out right and he was

looking for someone to come in and take

over and pay him and take over fear to

take over his you know stuff and all

that negotiate a new lease in the

landlord and uh turns out it's a

government property so it's not so

straightforward I had to Tender for the

place okay

um but I somehow got it again I had a

lot of people very fortunate to have a

lot of people backing me and uh even

though I pitched the least amount of

rent yeah uh they took me instead of

other people established operators

because in the spirit of cultivating an

art space you wanted to give it to

someone uh fresh right you know so

you're like the you you're like the role

model

um I want a chef that uh it's almost

like a discovery kind of thing something

like that you know there was a board

that made the decision as to who took

the place right and I mean part of the

consideration is money rent yeah but the

other part of the consideration is

concept okay right and uh there was one

person I'm gonna give thanks to that one

person right here right here her name is

Marjorie Chu she was one of the board

members and even though the board was

split on me she came in and banged the

table and said if you don't choose

beyond for this right

I'm leaving this board I don't know she

said something she said something like

that okay but she basically manhandled

everyone else into agreeing and having

me as the chosen tenant how did it

happen because you are nobody oh nobody

and you just I offered the lowest amount

of rent yeah no what what concept do you

pitch that they were like wow okay so I

feel like maybe also because the other

people I know who they were yeah I can't

say who they were but they pitched very

nighttime concepts with live music and

okay you know uh drinking Concepts and

all that and I was the only one that

pitched this wholesome day and night

sort of you know lunch and dinner and I

want to work with the museum and the

arts space here and I want to support

the programming you know that so it was

a first of all it was a good fit yeah

second of all here was you know they

they are in the business of running an

Arts organization right so they're all

about residency programs and you know

supporting the Arts yes so here was this

young guy who was who who they were

supporting the art of a young guy as

opposed to all these other established

Brands right that wanted helping you

with your dream yes and I cannot be more

thankful and more grateful wow so there

was a that one break one break and but

that was a big place it was way bigger

than I had a man because all I wanted to

do it came back was to open a small Cafe

exactly it was like 20 seats 30 seats

yeah be the only Chef in the kitchen

yeah right or the only you know one of

the only guys there have a very small

space and this was like a hundred seat

restaurant yeah I was not ready for this

place exactly I remember you came back

from Australia we had coffee

over at Club Cuba remember then you were

asking me hey do you have anybody that

you know that restaurants and all that

you were actively searching yes and I

remember you we were sitting on there

and you remember you saying that yeah I

want something small yeah so you get

this it's like so this was way too bad

this was way too big for me I mean it's

it's massive yeah so how I got around

that was I proposed the rent that I was

comfortable with yeah okay if I propose

the rent that you know related and

corresponded with the size of space then

I mean I would have been way over my

head okay so I proposed the rent that I

was comfortable with for a smaller space

right and they they gave you the whole

thing they did well let me have it right

um okay so I just freaking lucky and

blessed that's all I can say okay so

Margaret Margarita Marjorie true and the

rest of the board at sculpture square at

the time you know thank you thank you

from the bottom of my heart so you got

your place and all that um one thing

that everybody's always thinking about

is Passion yep how what do you think

about this whole idea of passion because

if I break down passion it is interest

things that you can talk about yeah

obviously you can talk about food a lot

yeah

um things that you feel are your

strengths yeah

um I wanted to find out from you when

you started cooking and started all

these things who believed in you or did

you believe in yourself or where do you

get that validation okay okay so let's

talk about passion I mean you know

passion for me is a dirty p word right

because it only takes you so far and you

find that a lot of things burn through

your passion what do you mean okay so I

think of it like a young Chef I see I

ended up teaching in the CIA Culinary

Institute of America for you know seven

good years I saw a lot of students come

through and I feel like a lot of them

you know the attrition rate is quite

High because they come in with a lot of

passion but then the industry Burns away

their passion their passion is almost

like a piece of charcoal which has got a

limited lifespan and when you burn

through it it's gone okay you know so

this industry is one of those that burns

through your passion because while you

love what you do as a chef you you think

about being a chef it's just cooking and

creating and making food but the truth

is you're dealing with issues all the

time that are not food related yeah so

it will burn away your passion you will

end up dealing with staff issues you

know two people fight they don't like

each other they both love you you love

both of them but they can't get along

right they fight both Leaf you know then

you're like

right okay and it slowly chips away at

you you're dealing with things like you

know you you put out a beautiful plate

of food you what you believe is to be a

good price and then someone gives you a

one star review because they believe it

should be half the price and you pitch

to that they don't believe that

restaurant should make a profit they're

like yeah I think eventually even though

you know it's nonsense yeah it burns

away at your soul

so there's a lot of like Soul consuming

things that you have to deal with as a

business owner not as a chef right as a

chef you just come to work you do your

food you you touch ingredients you make

your dish and then you go home right

maybe your idea doesn't get past the

owner okay that's the only thing that

makes you a bit pissed off you know uh

you know uh when I want you to cook

things you don't want to cook but as a

business owner you deal with a lot of

other [ __ ] right and I found that even

though I had a passion for food yeah

food only took nine or ten percent of my

daily work the other ninety percent was

fixing broken pipes dealing with

government authorities dealing with

staff problems yeah okay so I think

because you are in a very unique

situation you are not you are firstly a

chef you're also an owner yeah so some

people might follow their passion and

just be a chef they don't care about HR

issues and all that yes and if you

follow your passion and become a chef

yeah and this is what I found right when

you're in your early 20s fresh out of

culinary school you're okay to take a

chef's salary yeah and Chef salaries are

not high okay I'll say this as a very

matter of fact sort of thing right the

industry salary that can be awarded to

any employee is based on how profitable

that industry is f b is not a profitable

industry profit margins are super slim

if people are wondering the average

profitability of a successful business

in Singapore is five percent that's for

a ten dollar plate of food 50 cents is

your profit for a successful restaurant

people always think it's like five

dollars or 50 freaking cents nine

dollars fifty cents is your rent is your

Staffing it's your overheads everything

okay and this is for the successful ones

right that even make a profit that's a

minority of people okay so it's 50 cents

to go so because profits are so thin

Chef's salaries are not that high yes

it's not like we are trading ships or

not like we're working in a bank where

we sell you know intellectual services

that are worth you know great amounts of

what we're trading on plates of food

here

15.25 plates of food yeah you know so

Chef salaries are not high so when

you're 25 years old it's okay it's okay

when you come out you're okay to

sacrifice that suddenly I find that a

lot of chefs by the time they get to

close to 30 when they're starting to

think about next steps in life when they

want to settle down yes writing down

kids getting married having kids

suddenly the 30-year Mark 30 years of

age Mark is a time where they flip that

they have to be a business owner no

they end up leaving the industry their

passion is not enough to carry them

forward right because passion alone

doesn't pay the bills okay and a chef's

salary for some people does not pay the

bills that they need right it does not

afford them the ability to go on

holidays for the luxuries that they want

in life and they start realizing hey

[ __ ] you know like

how long is it going to take for me to

you know get or I mean will I even ever

get the salary that I want well I even

ever you know so when you say that at

that 30 year mark it's either you quit

the industry or you set up your own well

I mean a lot of people don't have the

money to set up their own okay so most

mostly have dietitian yeah that's why

you have nutrition rate okay that's why

you have attrition rate okay so no

that's why you feel that passion can

only take you so much then what would

you say to a passionate a very

passionate person who's who loves doing

this yeah what should we do at 30 then I

don't know I mean look if you really are

passionate about it

but you need and you understand that

your lifestyle requires a certain amount

of money that you're not going to make

from the industry then just keep it as a

hobby

okay keep it as a hobby don't go into it

because it'll be dumb to waste 10 years

of your life okay going into even

imagine starting again from scratch 10

years after you first enter the

workforce you know I mean nothing wrong

with trying a few things but you would

have all that lost time yeah and you now

have a skill that's not applicable in

other places yeah you know okay okay so

if you have that passion you could just

carry on with the hobby rather than just

going full time and I think most people

should a lot of restaurant owners I know

in hindsight should have just kept it as

a passion okay because it takes a

different set of criteria and skill and

and fortitude to actually be a business

owner got it totally understand it's a

totally different ball game from just

doing that oh Chef a chefs okay and

again the qualified chefs can earn a lot

of money

but you need to stay in a course and you

need to wait till you get to the higher

positions entry level salaries are [ __ ]

okay okay but I can tell you that when

you get to middle management and above

yeah you're earning more than a lot of

government employees okay you you you

you're better off than a lot of

government jobs so you need to stay the

course if you really do and one a lot of

people can't stay the course got it okay

so last few questions what is one value

that you feel makes you feel that okay

this job is Meaningful to me what is the

value they're living out okay so as a

business owner myself and as a chef yeah

I find myself in the very uh privileged

position of being able to cook to my

um self-expression

like an artist

I can do things that other business

owners will not allow their chefs to do

yeah you know I can

yeah I can express myself okay should I

want to and I want to okay you know so I

don't have to do things that are safe

right yeah right as long as I am

agreeable with the risk I understand the

risk and I'm willing to take those risks

I can do things that are not safe I can

do things that sound absolutely stupid

and I've done things that are absolutely

stupid right so say if you're talking

about uh as a business or as a business

concept just look at what I last did at

Smalls which was my Omakase restaurant I

did one whole year where I did bread

sushi

where I turn Smalls into a sushi bar

where we were putting freaking Japanese

raw fish on top of pieces of bread

there's no rice we are taking bread

fresh from the oven that we made like a

good pizza dough for and it was slapping

raw fish on bread and this is like

sacrilegious to every Japanese Chef out

there and every Japanese person right

and it just makes absolutely no sense

but we could do it for a year because

I'm the business owner right so this

it's so the core thing is what

expression creativity yeah and we take a

concept like Omakase which is a you know

very uh premium sort of dining

experience and we made pizza Omakase

where the first those pizza we're like

what the [ __ ] is this guy thinking right

but hey I'm My Own Boss yeah I can do

that okay I'm I have the benefit of

doing that I'm blessed that I can do

that all right yeah last thing just

lasting do you feel that this is going

to be the main thing that you're going

to be doing for the rest of your life oh

yeah I feel yes absolutely I have many

more years to give in me and uh

um

13 years in this year will be the 14th

14th year still not dead I'm still not

dead okay I have a lot more to give cool

one last thing for the viewers

um and audience what would you say to

somebody who does have a passion but

they are working a nine to five they do

have something but they have never

actually tried it or pushed for it yeah

what would you say to somebody like that

you know this is exactly what I thought

as well I mean do I pursue it do I not

pursue it I have to ask you the question

if you don't pursue it

will you one day regret not pursuing it

I think most work right most would yeah

if you are the kind that can just leave

it alone and not come back and wonder

about it yeah then just leave it alone

all right man yeah thank you so much

beyond for your time today and uh for

everybody you can check out his

restaurant artichoke and Smalls and go

there and they're still serving the

omakasi we do we do Omakase right now

we're doing Kebab omakasi right now

right okay thank you so much to be on

for your time today thank you guys uh

Extremely Blessed for all the support I

don't think it comes down to skill or

anything I think you can hear that

everything that I've got today is based

on dumb luck and just people deciding to

support me uh for whatever reason so I'm

extremely blessed and I don't think I'll

be here without all those things

happening so I owe it to a lot of people

where I am that's all that's all I'm

gonna say cool yeah very sweet thank you

[Music]