TRANSCRIPT

Becoming a Pasta Chef - Lee Yum Hwa (BenFatto) | The CJH Podcast EP8

*Captions are taken directly from YouTube and may not be 100% accurate

[Music]

we have Lee Yum Hua over here thank you

Yum Hwa for being here hi Jason thanks

I'm going to introduce you uh a little

bit so he is he was a former tax

consultant uh for one of the big four

firms uh but uh trip to Italy inspired

him and the pleasure of just eating one

pasta dish that simply he couldn't find

in Singapore led to an obsession that

spurred him to create uh try to create

that pasta for himself

the right that's right okay so he

studied under help me out there yeah

uh some have said that she's the Grand

Master in Northern Italian style of

pasta is that right broadly speaking yes

okay he also studied under Sardinian

pasta maker Claudia kasu yes

which she specializes in rare and close

to extinct pasta formats in the world

all right you consider yourself a pasta

maker uh I think the word you mentioned

was pasta pastille Castile pastel what

does that mean this means pasta making

everything quite cool so he worked in

restaurants after that he worked he was

uh while he was doing all these things

he was working in restaurants in Toronto

specializing in in-house Pasta

Production for the restaurant he also

worked in a pasta Factory yes in a

semi-artisanal pasta Factory it produces

fresh pasta oh my goodness they don't

know yeah

okay he founded his very own private

dining benefit 295 established dedicated

establishment dedicated to the

intricacies of making and serving fresh

pasta uh dubbed as Singapore's foremost

pasta Artisan uh by tatlam Asia magazine

you also got covered by channel news

Asia Peak magazines and many other media

that's correct yeah opened the much

anticipated Italian restaurant in

collaboration in collaboration with the

chick

the restaurant is actually called Forma

that's right

welcome to this show and I'm so curious

about understanding how this all started

um maybe take us back all the way to

when you kind of knew what your career

was going to be and how did it end up as

yeah so I started

um at one of the big four doing text

Consulting and compliance direct

advisory I actually did that for quite a

number of years uh there was a path I've

always followed as an accountant because

my dad is one as well he has his own

firm uh had his own firm he's retired uh

set on various boards in uh

oversight committees and all that uh so

that was always the

path formula okay started we went to

several uh accounting firms to

work at okay as expand this uh and then

finally landed a job in one of the big

fours and then worked for I think a good

six or seven years and then got so tired

of it

and then along the way you know I've

always been in love with

Italian food

inspired by

Jamie Oliver yeah so I always tell

people that and then

they would laugh right because Jimmy

Oliver maybe 15 years ago it was

something but now he's like

yeah right he was big last night it was

it was being last time then now he's uh

he's never a chef now okay I think he's

more uh a Down and Out business owner

like this yeah yeah businessman yeah

okay so but that is how my journey

started so I've always been in love with

the Italian food and then um

I've always dabble a little bit uh

cooking for Friends cooking for whatever

family and then uh came across uh it

came to a point where

in my professional career as a tax

person

uh

it was either I continued

to be yeah down this path or I just

remove myself myself entirely to

you know try something else different

something not just different love but

something I've always wanted to do

um so I've always been in touch with

people in FMB so people from our

yeah

uh you know so many of them are in the

food business yeah so I've always been

talking to some some of them and yeah

they know that yeah has got something

he's got his heart set in in food right

so you know they've given me various

advices and I should try to do something

while you still can a lot because at

that point everyone was really kind of

settling down in fatherhood and

everything so with children it's

difficult right yeah and like so you

know you're not

uh you're not married yet

you haven't got kids I think you should

just try it out loud yeah so that's what

I did like so I I left I took a leap of

faith and then

you know

I worked

straight off the bat I worked at

a restaurant called artichoke villains

yeah yeah

yes so I spent a year there actually in

over six months

my agreed arrangement with Beyond was

just to try out for six months and six

months why would you agree because you

you has he tasted your pasta and all

that first I haven't started doing pasta

there

well he he just well I think it was uh I

think the Stars the Stars collided at

that point in time and he had an opening

right right yeah and so that at that

point I was leaving my professional

career

uh so he said come on Bola you know

um try it out see how it fits you uh

that's the best way to

eventually if you do uh transition into

this new role at this new career so yeah

so I uh worked there for six months to

see how you know uh and it was quite fun

you know it was very challenging but I

enjoyed uh every bit of it pretty much

then I extended for another six months

but also you know right because FNB you

always need people yeah so I think he he

needed staff and I was happy to stay for

another six months so I was there for a

year in total and yeah what what do you

do because if you have no experience in

FNB what do you uh what how I

contributed how I contribute because I'm

sure that you didn't go I want to be the

front service staff right I want to be

behind I want to be behind I was at the

house I had no intention to go and fly

Huskers uh I actually did before last

time you know waiting for all levels I

think yeah yeah uh yeah so back end was

my thing okay so uh no explain that yeah

I just want to do back and anything else

you can anything else okay uh wash

dishes I was looking anything I mean I

did everything I basically did

everything yeah uh even the last day

that I was at artichoke she was like yum

you have to uh uh distribute I mean you

have to stay in the past

which is the way you call the orders and

then you you know you you finish the

dishes and you set it out to you know

which is like the most important role

usually undertaken by a senior person

usually a chef La okay so uh I say yeah

Beyond you you ask me you you you uh

thanks for you know helping me out

thanks for giving me a spot but I have

to prepare you like I got no experience

I know I know it just do what you can so

I just did my best and uh

turns out that I was not Roblox

so I was not terrible so uh in fact I

think some of the stations I rather

enjoyed it and then I just took it from

Bella you know um so I dabbled in all

stations I did my best not to screw up

yeah uh so yeah I think it was it was

fun and it was a very fulfilling for for

both of us interesting um I think every

every time somebody wants to try out

something about their passion they need

an opening they need some kind of starts

to align yeah they need somebody to have

faith in them to say that I once grew up

your operations in your business I just

need a chance

and I understand even before this

interview

um you shared about something about that

in FMB that's quite common what do you

call that

means that's uh what is yeah that's

called stage stash how do you pronounce

how do you spell it s stage stage okay

s-t-a-g-e right that is FM video it's

very common it's very common it's a very

common Arrangement but there's no money

there's no monetary incentive tied to it

so you're just understanding and under

is that understudy it's like a

apprenticeship without pay but that was

not the arrangement between me and

Alicia when I was like I was a actual

employee right okay starch is usually

very short-lived uh maybe a month or two

for everyone you just go there you have

a certain agenda and then you learn and

then uh you go yeah that's as far as I

know interesting yeah okay but mine was

a full-time employment rightful so one

year you tried all stations and yeah

people listening and watching what do

you mean by all stations so I usually

you start at uh

if I'm not wrong the most basic uh is

the cool side the cool station gamanje

where you build the uh you prepare the

salads the group The Greens the green

stuff anything cool stuff like

appetizers

which is very prep heavy because you

have a lot of components and all that uh

uh but you assemble there is no there's

a limit there's minimal uh application

of heat okay so it's a cold site got it

yeah then you start there and then uh I

slowly moved to

uh another course sort of coal station

where because artichoke has all the

little small plates yes yeah so I was

there assembling all the small places

like hummus for example yeah yeah so

um that was an easy transition that but

again the prep there was very heavy

because there's so many components uh

there wasn't uh a lot of there was a

little bit more uh

cooking where you have to apply heat to

a certain some ingredients but it's

still not like working at the stove or

the grill for example so it's only there

then I spend like two or three months

there and then I transition to you know

the grill and then to the the stove uh

Pizza there's one point uh artichoke was

running pizzas for brunch so I worked

with like a small oven a Gosney oven

then

then yeah that I did a bit of dessert as

well I think yeah and the pastry side

yeah so and I think I did another round

also I think I did another tour around

the kitchen is it normal that people

actually go

depends on how long you last like right

yeah but usually they start it depends

on your your also your experience and

what position you are applying for of

course right uh if you're applying for a

head chef some Chef position you

probably have to have a hand in every

station at one point or to at least to

have a very broad understanding but your

job is a much

higher level and you have to look at

everything from from top down

so you may not exactly be in this

working that station on a daily basis

day in and day out

but you need to understand all these

different different stations because you

are after all the

oversight you know yeah overseeing

everything yeah

so when you were there for one year you

had no experience in FMP at all except

no commercial experience hobby kind of

like helping you out yeah which is very

different yeah which is very different

but that was enough for you to

to say that I want to try out FMB help

me help me navigate that because

what what part of um you cooking for

friends and all that or where did the

interest come from what was it since

young that you had cookbooks or I had a

ton of cookbooks and DVDs and I watched

a lot of television with cook shows so

when was the primary school Secondary

School let's say secondary yeah and what

sparked that off was it Grandma's

cooking was it like yeah I mean I used

to help out with my grandmother in the

kitchen no

do you think that it started there

probably yeah probably and my my

grandmother loves food so she's

uh not shy to use like a lot of bull

flavors a lot of fat I know that her

cooking is a lot of a lot inside

but yeah a very rich Foodler you know so

I guess that kind of developed my

palette and this is a secondary school

no I never started like when I was a

young man I was a kidler primary school

even young so you were helping around

the kitchen already uh bits and pieces

like she used to ask me to do those um

you know Chinese New Year they they fold

the dumpling oh no Chinese New Year

sorry um I'm sure it's Chinese New Year

but you know that you have got those

uh that saw e you know they call it

salty right so gluttonous balls and yeah

and white ones that's like a birthday

kind of something I'm sorry yeah uh

stuff like that and then

um she would ask me to uh fold dumplings

with her I guess which kind of uh spun

off in a good direction as now I'm

making I'm moving pasta right so it's

the the skill set is transferable yeah

yeah it sounds like the Chinese uh

Chinese version of pasta yeah so that's

what I did and then I ended up eating a

lot of it

my this tactile you know uh think about

me where I like to work with my hands

like right right yeah yeah so since

young you doing that uh so your

grandmother kind of like gave you the

opportunity in the first part

then we foreign

but it's just very different from

working in the kitchen because kitchen

you have hierarchy you have process and

everything has to be

uh in synchronized the way you know you

need to be very organized you need to

work fast like a system

one thing messes up everything the

engine store exactly it's very different

you have to think on your feet uh you

have to work on your feet and literally

be on your feet yeah and also uh working

at home you know you have the luxury of

just taking a break anytime you want

let's start music and sit down with a

glass of wine take your time but you

don't have that kind of thing on the

professional kitchen and like always

people

carrying knives and working with you

know hot uh stuff you know carrying

thing is is it can be a dangerous

environment if you're not careful also

you know yeah so this is very different

okay I'm curious about you having that y

Junction uh you were doing tax you're

doing well I'm assuming and you had to

choose whether or not you were just

carried on down that tax road where

actually life would be a bit Cushing

it'll be okay right

um salary

uh you're not perspiring you're wearing

a shirt and you're wearing you're an

office yeah icon office all the way and

then going down

the other path um

describe the Y Junction what happened

there because yeah is it just the idea

that yeah so now I don't have kids I'm

not married yet and all that yeah let's

just try something that that uh

obviously has a huge part to play in my

decision

but I would say uh I probably got burnt

out doing okay doing texts

day India and

I mean you know that I'm not sure that's

the reputation in working in this kind

of industry especially in a big forward

they will just pushula yeah definitely

your limit you know and then uh there's

no such thing as

as a holiday right yeah even when I was

on holiday I was still kind of working

yeah had my laptop strapped to my back

wherever I go I was answering emails and

other and then you worked till the late

hours

depending on the season yeah uh yeah so

I got burnt out and then I was like you

know let's just try something different

uh yes it will be tough but you know it

would it'll be something refreshing

um and then at least

I guess it was just an answer that was

begging a question begging to be

answered like the big question is what

if I had done this instead and I don't

want to live the rest of my life not

knowing

so it was just

a good point in Timeline my in my

professional career as well as my

private life is a good time to

take a they call it a sabbatical right

some sort of a sabbatical except that I

didn't actually return that yeah yeah so

that was like give me age

um that was after you finish you needed

at 26 around there

uh 27 no no no that was like much later

yeah after you finish uni then you add

six years working yeah so so that what

33

5 35 3435 right so 34 35 yeah after

working

six years six seven years and you

studied that so I I was working in a

smaller firm before before okay so that

was like two years I think three years

of working eight to nine yeah enough

try something different you know

a lot of people uh wonder about uh uni

University degrees and all that right

and they they it's like I know for you

help me understand you know you're going

to be in text that's why you did a

degree in what

I actually didn't do a degree I did a

professional certification oh yeah

because you're in this profession you're

not required to have a degree right so

those professional certifications are

things like what it's uh it's basically

uh an overseas uh it's a international

uh body that regulates uh

this professional professional line it's

called the Acca it's easy okay

would you would did you ever think about

just taking over your desk business yes

was that the I think that was kind of in

the in the works uh in the beginning

like he was supposed to grow me into

someone to fill this yeah to fill the

gapla later on yeah but this things just

didn't work out there you know

yeah but he's fine he's cool with it

he's cool with it right yeah so so

because like if if usually for uh

generational businesses usually they

would definitely want this is different

because this jet not necessary

generation because this is not like a

business handed down this is a

partnership so he's one of the partners

of uh The Firm okay okay yeah so they I

mean he could get me in I suppose these

things would provide itself but at least

on credibility and uh you know it's not

uh Nepal the stickline we got it and got

it yeah this one but that's how uh

accounting firms work yeah it's it's

also partnership it's mostly a

partnership law firms and all that yes

yes okay yeah

so coming back when it when you say that

okay I'll I'm gonna do one year at uh

aricho to try out six months then became

one six months then after it became one

year yeah what was the next step for you

do you already know that

but I was doubling in pasta like I was

developing this uh tactile ability to

form staff

to you know playing outside

artichoke but not in artichoke okay

yes this is Turkish except for pasta

except for pizza that's the only thing

yeah but the the pizza and and pasta

those are different okay the way they

feel it's just different so when you

start developing at home

at home

with a type God laugh okay so show me so

you were working six are you working for

one year yeah I was working while I was

at work I don't work seven days a week

yeah yeah three hours days of this or

free time I just double I just continue

because I've always been I know I want I

knew I wanted to do Italian food

that was my interest but I worked at

artichoke because it it doesn't it's not

you're not limited by I mean the the

skill sets that you learn and the

knowledge that you learn the know-how of

how to run or how a business is run and

the kitchen runs it operates is not

confined to the characters

yeah exactly so yeah that's why uh I

worked at uh Beyond's kitchen you know

okay so but my my real love was in

Italian food and that was uh something

that I

uh and backed on uh at home now yeah on

my during my free time so I was doing

pasta and then I just

tried doing different shapes uh

classical a little bit more nouveau

uh taking photos of it and then I

decided to start an Instagram well

so that's where uh my Instagram account

came about and then I just started

posting pictures

um because at that point I don't see

anyone really focusing on pasta it was

always about Italian food

there wasn't a very focused uh angle and

also I I was like yeah let's just focus

more on the pasta itself because from my

just limited experience you know at

folding different shapes even though

you're using the same door

requires a different kind of hand

movement or gesture

and

it was only later I found out or this

there isn't just one door there like so

many kinds of dough even with a certain

amount of dough with the same

composition it can vary based on the

hydration which uh you have to adjust

based on the shapes that you intend to

do so there's just so many things to do

so many configuration so there was

something very interesting to me

uh so yeah I just kept doing doing

different shapes and then experimenting

uh it was like it was like a hobby at

that point in time it was like just for

fun take pictures then post on Instagram

you know just for fun yeah I only had

like a couple of followers like my wife

and then some friends family members but

it was just a side thing or a side

project

while while I work my day job at

artichoke

yeah so at the time I didn't have a

clear idea of what I wanted to do I knew

it was a talent but I didn't know in

what shape or form

um

until I left after I left and then at

the point where I left Beyond was like

what's your next step right seriously

don't know so I think maybe you can

start doing

uh you can start running supper clubs

because at that time it was something

quite popular coming into into uh

into the scene you know I think at that

point there was only one other Italian

home dining outfit right Supper Club is

just another way of saying home dining

uh I think so yeah right probably yeah

so so um you invite people into your

home their own place into a space yeah

yeah privately it's so private I mean as

soon as I mean by your home but then you

you do everything

uh you can do everything or yourself or

you can like hype you can hide no no I

don't know the rules I think forbid you

to hire people or that could be hdb

rules for sure hdb rules they won't

allow you to do it okay uh but yeah you

get your I suppose your mom or your

sisters or your brothers to to help help

out if you are you can do everything

yourself like how I really right okay so

um he said I think that's a good

transition for you and it's a perfect

space to

build your brand because you're not con

you're not you're not pressured by

any rent yeah you're not pressured by

rent yes especially right you don't have

a small scale you don't have to uh

um hire people uh you can do your own

pace right you can do once a week maybe

you can start with friends family is

something that you have full control

with so I thought I'll kill her try it

out you know then but

I think it started with friends of

course and then slowly uh I think Beyond

came just uh support

and then beyond being Beyond with this

network and everything because he I

think he posted about it and then

suddenly everyone knew about it so I

think that's how uh he got he got it it

it it uh snowballed that right yeah

right it was one I remember trying to

book a place on oh yeah you guys were

like we all came the first group was

your friends are right yeah the

committee exactly for the we did our

reunion yeah yeah then we had a

celebration in your place and all that

yeah so would you say that

um you knew his Italian and then you

started experimenting as a hobby from

pasta uh and then you started the

Instagram yeah and it's purely on pasta

yeah and you did your supper club was it

purely pasta no

okay what was it Italian but it wasn't

focused on pasta it wasn't Focus so

remember right I remember I'm not sure

if you remember you came you came there

were only two pasta dishes yeah and then

the rest was like Japan everything yes

yes yes

telling teams right yeah uh you were not

clear yet

that it was going to be passed out of

the way I I wasn't clear on how this

will unfold but I knew pasta was fun to

do

um

I'm not sure if pasta will be something

that I could make a career out of but I

knew pasta was something I wanted to

touch and do and fall and and create and

roll and you know push and pull and talk

whatever

yeah so uh Beyond came along again this

that day and then uh as in after that

dinner I thought so he came and then he

he blasted about it and then he said

after looking back maybe you know you

should just do pasta I know your

Instagram has so many pasta pictures

it's like everything there's pasta in

some in this is the word pasta pasta

maker pasta this pasta that yeah but

then in your private dining you're not

just you're not serving all pasta so

there is a there isn't uh it doesn't

coincide that there's no congruency in

your brand there isn't congruency then

he said maybe just give it a chance and

just do more pasta how about this try it

out then that will definitely set you

apart right because there's no other

outfit that just does faster yeah

um

I did think about that like beginning

but I was a bit skeptical on how a full

Pasta menu would work yeah unheard of

yeah I wasn't sure if that would work

easy so I was very scared that's why in

the beginning I I just didn't I didn't

want to do all pasta I wanted to be safe

I was playing safe love yeah uh but

after Beyonce then I said can I just

give you a shot after all you know I did

that that leap of faith a year ago let's

try another leap of faith lab which uh

uh you know worked out in the end law so

that kind of differentiated the brand

yeah as well

yeah and I'm still doing that today

still full pasta I love what you said

about

um fun because when I talk to people at

the top of their game and there's

something about passion something about

passion has something about energy

coming up that means you don't even feel

it's work you feel it's played you you

want to be immersed into it so for you

when it described to me what pasta does

for you like what's so fun about it

because to another person it's like huh

pasta that's kind of bread level like

this is it is not the main thing the

main thing is the sauce or something

else but it

what does what did pasta do for you like

that you can consider it fun

yeah because uh

pasta is uh

if you look at this Encyclopedia of

Pastor they've got

if you count like if you bother the

counter like what six or seven hundred

types

uh and then whereas bread it's just

maybe a a few types right

I don't know but to me is uh

I will be blocked doing bread every day

although there are different kinds of

bread yes but compared to Pasta you know

um there's just so much more

possibilities to do something different

every every season which is why I guess

uh because a job gets bought quite

quickly so with pasta I don't get bored

because there's something else there's

always something different something to

learn

um I think there are two ends of the

spectrum that happiness and joy that I

derive is

is uh at the beginning of Learning of a

new pasta shape and at the end where I

succeed in making that pasture shape

you know because at the point where I'm

still learning

it's fun but very frustrating yes yeah

to be effective very frustrating

I think there was one shape that

I was so beat up about it I was like so

emotional

uh he ate me up so I I couldn't I was

like I cannot accept that I I'm failing

at this

you know so I was very emotional about

what she was in and it's the hardest

Pastor to do in the world

describe a 3D uh to us

roughly

it's uh it's a pasta that is fashioned

after

cloth

so it looks like cloth

which means that the so cloth threats

right yes the thread the parchment yeah

it's like a Leticia so this pasta

is very fine threads of not

cotton but pasta so it requires a very

unique technique that was taught to me

by

A lady called Claudia uh who's in

Sardinia was from Sardinia you know and

she's one of the Masters

that can produce this pasta in the world

well yeah it's uh close to be extinct uh

pasta format that only a handful of

people are able to master so that was

that was it La so that was it and then

uh because I was thinking you know

this is the pasta that will cement

yeah

my name on the world map yeah this will

uh yeah

so I'm serious about it yeah oh it's so

difficult

yeah okay

so once you did that and you're saying

that that the growth processor is

exciting to you every time there's a new

shape you have to do it and suddenly you

are able to do it succeed yeah yeah then

you can move on to another [ __ ] because

you said no but this one is different

but this one is different this one is I

was just I'm sorry I'm trying to use

this as a reference for how emotional I

was and everything like this is the this

is uh this is like uh the the at the

peak the peak of uh of what I can I can

do in or I can feel about a pasta you

know but generally speaking a lot of

shapes out there um yeah when you first

touch it and then you you learn about it

uh that that first initial process it's

very fun it's very exciting you know

then you learn learn and then you get it

and then every time when you manage to

nail it there's this exhilarating

feeling like like wow it's so beautiful

you know and then you have that feeling

so it's a different kind of feeling

uh so that exists for a lot of

Partnerships but for this particular one

this is one whole other story

yeah but that was at the peak of my uh

at the point of time like with the peak

of of how I could actually derive in

terms of Joy emotion and all sorts of uh

you know feelings that I could get

because this is very unheard of to

anyone who's trying to do something but

it's very it's it's quite common I do

feel for people who strive for

excellence in something quite common

share with me just the emotions that you

went through when it comes to this

because a lot of people feel that oh

passion is just fun it's fun and it's

not very challenging it's you know do

what you feel most

um some people feel that oh if you

follow your strengths you follow your

passion you're happy most of the time

but it's actually not the case you're

challenged your challenge and

there can be Downs even though you're

doing something you enjoy and the

challenge is the is the that is the

beautiful thing is that you are able to

overcome that challenge while doing what

you enjoy but it doesn't mean there's an

easy thing doing what you are passionate

about is not easy it's difficult and

it's challenging and there's joy in that

share with me the emotions you felt that

that when you couldn't do that we

couldn't succeed and share me after

I'm not sure what how hot that was it

like just frustration was it like you're

weeping on the floors

not to the extent but uh

I mean

everything is a challenge lab this even

though when you're not doing pasta you

have other challenges like how to

create a source how to make sure that

you can execute it properly how you can

even uh

get you know the available produce

that is meant for the dish you know so

all these challenges uh something that

you have to face all right so it's not

just the pasta making process yeah so

um

I guess

yeah there isn't there isn't a way to

derive uh Joy entirely there are

challenges that you have to face

and it's just something that you have to

accept like it's part and parcel of the

game

yeah yeah yeah

so yeah yeah answering that right

definitely definitely yeah it's just um

people do find that uh when somebody

says follow your passion uh people think

that's the easy way out but actually

it's a whole that whole lot of valleys

of overcoming if you

I suppose if I mean you follow your

passion means that you are going to make

passion your career right yeah right and

every career has has a problem have have

their own share problems yeah not

everything is going to be a Rosy right

yeah so if if you're making something

your job your job will have inherently

have problems

like for example Staffing that's a huge

issue

uh produce whether it's coming in with

whether in terms of the quality

consistency of the quality these are all

challenges well you know any challenges

that you see right so you cannot just

kind of uh

uh

see I mean you gotta see the whole

package right it comes with all these

inherent challenges just for example

pasta making is just it's not just

making the password so

back then yes when it wasn't a career

when it was a hobby yes because you have

control of everything

all right you're just my my little

Studio I've got a camera that works a

nice iPhone camera that works you're in

a control environment you know you're

not uh

treasured by time and space you can take

your time

you know you can do

um

you can work creatively for example if

you're doing a shape and you want to

talk more about the shape you can take

your time and do a research run some

research on on the internet read some

books understand understand more about

the shape and then you can share it you

know the creative aspect and the

historical aspects of the shape the

background and talk about it on

Instagram for example which is what I

used to do oh you know you have full

control but then when you when it

becomes a job where you have to bring

that shape into a restaurant and then

you have to communicate that to a

different kind of audience you may not

get the same kind of people that follow

you on Instagram they understand your

ammo they know that oh this is what

uh they're in tune with what you're

doing right in the first place but if

you bring that in the restaurant they're

all these Dumpty calories that come in

they may not exactly understand where

you're coming from and then they they

will they will just kind of Judge you

with you know a very broad lens and yeah

all these little inherent problems that

you need to face so uh yeah it's

different when you transition from a

hobby to just a commercial yeah

yeah I'm curious about the you

when Bjorn was actually sharing with you

that you should just focus on pasta what

changed in terms of after you after

doing that and you started to focus on

pasta what changed what happened was it

that uh your private dining like blew up

and then you started to go overseas to I

don't know learn things or do straight

away okay I'm gonna set up my restaurant

now

it wasn't I I didn't uh

I was thinking I could I I would be

doing this for for some time so there

wasn't any plans to open a proper

restaurant because to to actually do

what I do is is very difficult to

operationalize in a commercial

environment okay yeah which is why this

private this little um very small scale

home dining thing works

for the kind of passes that I do so all

the passes that I do on my platform I

cannot not all can can be scaled to a

restaurant

uh so

what changed was

uh which was in a good way like I

suppose people came with with this

uh it was it was a novelty

right because no one else was kind of

doing

just pasta yeah because also

the ships that I offer are quite

technical

so which needs a very

practice hand

so

um

it's hard to do a full pasta de gas

station with

just one or two shapes right and then

use different sources that is hard to

it's hard to

differentiate which is actually what I

used to do at first just using a very

generic pasta and then sourcing it

differently but that doesn't set you

apart yeah so what now I'm doing now is

I'm doing the kind of like the opposite

where I'm doing different shapes but the

sauces are

um more or less the same

innovaila right yeah so the the pasta so

now the so now the the style of the dish

becomes the pasta and are able to

communicate that with the diner you see

yeah yeah I'm able to kind of

uh string a very nice kind of narrative

uh I'll wrap a very nice story behind

each shape because that's where the

that's where that's how uh how the pasta

dish is is special

okay so that is uh uh the way that has

kind of set me apart from

you know any kind of concept out there

that has

generic Italian meal with just one or

two pastas for example

yeah so I I guess after that after that

uh the transition

when I made the change I think that kind

of um propelled me a little bit further

in terms of the differentiation aspect

yeah and of course it also uh push it

also pushed me to

delve even even further into the craft

right because last time you're doing all

Italian yes and you're doing pasta yeah

so now if I'm doing pasta so every

season you have to do a different pasta

right yes of course there'll be some

people who come back hey I want to have

that one that I had the last time

uh of course there are people but there

are also more people who are in the

category where once knew like I want to

try you know different kinds of pasta

because like you said last time there

were like what six seven hundred shapes

right yeah so

in that sense

uh I had to like uh expand like explain

upgrade expand my repertoire which is

which brings me back to the whole topic

about it being fun and not stagnating

because every shape has a different

history

and way of working with your hands is

some shapes are just similar but

different because it requires a slight

of hand that cannot be detected even by

you know by sight but you know this

plain looking cleaning looking at it it

needs to be experienced by the head so

it's very exciting for me

yeah so that's how I derive the joyler

I'm listening back to the whole that the

previous Point yeah and derived drug

when it comes to a new shape so I'm

never bought so it's always fun

yeah

yeah

right yeah

I Define passion is

um three different things right one is

interest things that you can talk about

forever a very long time second one is

strengths where you are able to

you're able to do things naturally that

other people cannot do and the last

thing is values right you talked about

interest a lot already one that you were

interested in all that and um your

interest understand I understand your

interest brought you to study under

different people how did it work out

don't have

so yeah I don't have yeah exactly so how

do you even like they only have like

they'll send you to those uh those

commercial schools right commercial

schools which are training people not be

pasta makers but to be chefs if you know

what I mean yeah so pasta is just

probably one of one of the more users

one of the 101 more years or whatever

this is a touching Google then how do

you even find those how have to talk to

people talk to chefs get to know people

so when I went to Toronto to to work to

start to through experience which is the

time when I was in artichoke when the

whole crew

uh so no Beyond that's the uh every year

every year once once a year trip to

Turkey and all that or the different

countries to the biggest team for a

holiday yeah yeah mostly bro I think

there's absolutely yeah also he brought

his team to that year he brought his

team to I think turkey or for me I can't

remember and I was like uh Beyond I I

rather not I mean I would love to go

with you guys but I'd rather use this

time to go to Canada

because I want to go and learn from

certain people that have got to Cotton

to know through Instagram

and they were like uh very notable

people in in their craft of of pasta

right and I think this little Instagram

means what they contacted you or you

contacted them no no Instagram you

followed and if you were bad like

nothing sometimes they'll they will

leave comments and it will connect with

them and then you deepen that

relationship like yes eventually if they

like your world you like their work and

or you know you happen to be working on

the same thing together and then you're

like Hey how do you you know get this to

this and you you ask questions you know

uh so yeah that's what that happened

with me then I said uh look Beyond um

because he's one one once a year trip is

always to further the knowledge and to

to uh something about learning yeah it's

learning is a research trip lab yeah so

that's what I want to do but I want to

do it for pasta so instead of going with

them I ran Canada and he was cool about

it so I went Canada and that's where I

learned um I learned to connect with

more people there

uh

uh and then slowly yeah you talk to

these people uh you build relationships

with them they like what you do and

slowly you kind of navigate navigate you

find even more people through these

people and you talk a lot and you talk

and they put you through them and they

connect you with them so that's how you

find out about these people so your

network fuels pure networking your

relationships yeah right yeah so I was

lucky uh I found a couple that I really

um

respect

uh two pasta makers

there are Masters in their

their own craft because pasta making is

very different it's as it says varied as

the Italian cuisine and there's no such

thing as it happens it's regional

Cuisine Italian is just

doesn't doesn't say enough

okay so pasta is also very regionally

based right so uh their masters in their

own regions uh so I I brushed uh

shoulders with a pasta maker a Maestra

in

northern part of Italy okay and then

that's where that's how I got to learn

how to you know rolls uh pasta very

traditionally uh very the northern style

pasta there's a egg based soft it's a

lady called It's A lady called Rina

politics yeah she's uh very well known

um pasta or rather a very well known

svolina they call him svalina is a is a

term

that they use to call Artisan pastamicus

in a certain part of Italy

yeah so she's in this she's been doing

this for close to 40 50 years my whole

life

right so she's very well respected in

albeit a small circle because she's not

she's not commercial she's not mess

she does not appeal to to the mass

audience so she's like she's Yoda level

yeah

nobody knows her but those people that

matter know her right yeah

so this is one of the ladies that I

respect a lot she's a grandmother and

actually I expect I respect grandmothers

my biggest Idols are not chests and

because Idols are

pasta antis and grannies really yeah why

that's because they spend

it brings us back to the topic about the

regionality of Italian cuisine

and the regionality and by that

extension the regional the regional

differences of Italian pasta so

pasta is very

um hyper local where

uh it could just be something

uh a grandmother or Auntie would

experience just that one or two pasta

shapes which they have experienced their

entire lives

they may not even know what spaghetti is

but they know what is

for example okay these are very very

Niche products but something that is

very common to them

uh that's how Regional it is so they're

very very specialized and this is

something that they've experienced like

how I experience with my grandma the the

tangyan for example okay since young six

seven eight nine years old they're the

mothers will be telling them you have to

learn how to make this pasta because if

you don't

they're not going to

they're not going to accept you as a

wife because this is actually pasta

making the ability to make pasta for

some cultures over there is is a

criteria when you're choosing wives they

look at your hands and you'll see okay

make a make a certain shape for me for

example if you can do it okay that

increases your chances of getting

married out to my or accept you as a

daughter-in-law for real

it's so cool for real okay so this is

this is a pasta one or two or three

shapes is something they've experienced

their entire lives and and by the time

there are 50 like anti-level or Amma

level you know Grandmaster 60 70 they've

been doing the same two or three shades

for how long now right seven eighty

years of their lives you know so that's

the masters of their craft so people are

call me master I'm like please don't

call me master I I'm just a student

I'm always going to be a student there

because these grandmothers have been

doing that one two shapes so many years

of our lives right now how are you gonna

bring all that years of experience into

you know into a restaurant menu which

changes every three months how are you

going to master that ship for you know

over two or three weeks during that

transition of of a new menu it's

difficult which is why I handmade pasta

or true Hemi pasta is something that

doesn't exist or is hard to exist or or

it's not

you can't exist but it may not be done

properly go to the level of Grandma not

to that level right but they make it

look so easy because I've been doing it

for so many years right right so there

are some there are the people when it

comes to pasta that I I like the most

okay okay so these ladies uh so Rina

Poletti okay is one of them yeah okay

and Claudia is the one who taught me

that that super difficult cloth pasta

that I mentioned earlier yeah and along

with others okay she's an auntie like

she's not that old yet but she's she's

very talented and she's considered a

grand master okay yeah so these are two

ladies that I I actually had the chance

to work with or uh learn under

right yeah oh yes all these kind of

learning hmm

who pays for it

yeah so why so funded

if I put myself in your position I could

think about like don't need to learn

that much anymore I've already

experimented while one year I don't need

to actually go and go on and Carry On

Learning where is that drive for you to

just keep learning different shapes

boredom oh really boredom and uh trying

to achieve the highest level

yeah

there are some ships that yeah I've been

doing it for very long but I will still

revisit and I will still want to

continue doing it and and getting the

best out of it

there's always something to improve yeah

uh whether it's whether it's speed or

the shape especially speed

especially speed because pasta making

unlike pizza making is is different

pizza making is about the the process

okay uh the environment I don't know the

the yeast that they use or the pullage

that they use or the I don't want the

starter that they use it's all science

it's uh but but the the tactile thing

about it is this I mean not rather

tactile but rather

um you make one pizza it feeds 12 people

for example or 10 people but the thing

about pasta is it's made one at a time

so the speed element is very important

if you understand what I mean you need

to make passes quick I mean I'm talking

for in within the context of a

restaurant yeah yeah so if you feed 12

people one pizza you make one pizza you

feed 12 people you won't you won't have

to work as fast yeah but if you make

pasta if you make pasta you need to

churn out for the same amount of like 10

12 packs you need your speed needs to be

you need to be very super efficient

super fast yeah super fast all right so

that's something that if you're working

in a restaurant environment you need to

tackle you need to you need to work on

so speed for me is something that I need

to work on definitely for a lot of

sponsorships right right so that that is

inherent book in The Craft lab Okay so

yeah that keeps me going right uh it's

always always listening trying to

improve speed especially increasing and

and maintaining the shape because when

you increase speed or increase scale

technique may change so I'm making

passes when I was when I started private

dining for 10 8 10 people yeah it's the

technique that I use for making this

pasta if I were to scale that into a

restaurant making for 50 60 people the

technique changes okay yeah definitely

okay so that's why

everything is always evolving especially

when you are a student of the craft so

I'm not a master right yeah that's why

I'm still learning always learning but

it's the beautiful thing about uh

people who always want to reach the

highest levels of Excellence they always

consider themselves students because

you're never there you're never done

and I think

once you've reached that level and you

do call yourself a master then as a

dangerous place to be this this just

means that you have you have stopped

yeah stop learning yeah you stop being

humbling and stop learning from learning

other people

right yeah

you said that you were very good with

your hands and all that and was there a

talent that

other people noticed or something you

notice yourself because when it comes to

strengths sometimes when you do

something you think it is normal to

everybody else so where do you get that

validation from

did it was it another Chef a actually

though that pasta was really good so

I didn't really

um

I use a lot of visual references um

yeah through Instagram

through the work of others right and of

course I will Benchmark right two

benchmarks you refer to those people you

defer to those people who are at a stage

of their career

that is at the highest point right very

notable pasta makers you compare that to

your work lab

and if you are able to replicate

the shape

with an acceptable texture

and how fast you can produce it

then you're good to go that's how I

always kind of use that that's that's

always the reference point that I use so

you use your own reference point through

other people's reference yeah it's it's

other Masters basically mimicking right

yeah so I'm like I'm like making it away

yeah but this is the fastest way to grow

yes once you can do that then you go

into creativity

yeah so I'm I would say now I'm not

creative okay I'm not a creative person

right what I do is just copy but I think

it's it's hard to copy there yeah it's

hard to copy

because take I mean the pasta shapes are

there it's been around for some of them

for hundreds of years yeah just have to

make the shape like make it look like

that but that's a difficult part yeah

making

trans transforming a lump of dough into

all these integrate shapes yeah you know

so actually mimicking is

is the job that is the job yeah it's me

making and of course the texture and

everything how it holds up in the sauce

how it Cooks you know okay would you

ever I mean jumping the gun because when

you're done and mimicking after a while

um besides that creative process of

different sources and all that would you

come up with your [ __ ]

it was just for fun was it something

that you look forward to want to do more

of probably can be improved okay yeah

okay we're improved right

a lot of things happening but

apparently some people like it's

yeah right yeah but so is it like like

you know Singapore we have orchids that

we name our market after like you know a

delegate king's car can you call your

own trip and say that I named it like a

like a planet like ah I'm a bit of a

traditionalist a little at this point so

when I talk about pastors I'm very

respectful to the Heritage right and the

history and the traditions of how this

shape came about so I don't see myself

going there father right so it's still

coming back to where it originated from

inspired by these few the very classical

but it okay I'm very classical okay at

least for now at least for now okay yeah

one thing about passion uh I realize

also is that something about living out

your values plays a big part for

somebody who's just working on their

passion and

just pushing out things that they feel

passionate about

what do you feel is your value that you

you prioritize to a point where yeah

actually while I'm doing this

I am living out my value something

important that I feel that I'm able to

do

by doing this

values I think I started private dining

with the value that I can spend time

with my wife

family okay yeah that's actually why I

value most right because private dining

at the time gave me you know this uh

very flexible schedule

which allows me to spend time with

family

so it carried on for a while uh until

now not that I have a kid you know now

they're working in a restaurant yeah uh

something I'm still

working on working on to to I'm always

working on to strike a balance yeah uh

but it's challenging right you know but

I guess like I said just now nothing is

perfect passion is one thing but

it all comes down to all these elements

that you that it comes along the whole

package and you have to just kind of

find a way to to work it out yeah but as

I did before when it comes to

um one of my values is definitely family

I prioritize time time time

yeah because you know when you I you

have I make it six

this young lady is you know growing so

fast you know uh each time you need to

be there to to catch yeah the crazy

little things that you know new things

that they learn and say and pick up you

know otherwise it's gone

you know so this this time is very

important uh

interesting yeah

that is um that is almost like macro

when it comes to your life where you

value time and you value those moments

that you can kind of archive in your

mind that you have lived

with your kids and all that in your life

when it comes to work

is there similarities that you see

because if anything about pasta is that

it's almost like a history book it's

like there's a shape it came to a region

came from that clano that that certain

people and then it's like it is it is

instead of a storybook it is

yeah would there be a correlation for

you that there is that whole idea of

timelessness archiving of memory or

something like that have you ever seen

that correlation

I think that is like a

in terms of time the element of time I

think when it comes to the pasta shapes

that I do I think it's a

something you can draw a lot of

reference uh from from uh to the element

of time yeah like you're basically

bringing people for someone that shape

like you're being people back in time

exactly it's all you are

also

um producing a Timeless piece of of work

of of

um of a food product for example yeah or

something that when you're Reviving The

Dinosaurs for a while yes or you're

pressing pop yes or you are just kind of

um

ensuring that it does not die out if for

example for the cloth pasta that I

mentioned

yeah it's something that could die out

but

it I'm just prolonging it a little bit

because since I've learned it

um I've become one of the few people

that can do it in this part of the

region yeah and I can I've prolonged its

existence I've I've deferred its

Extinction there you know so yeah and

that is a in the playoff of time and and

pastala you know

what so so what about that is that value

that you is it that you value that

something about history will always be

present something about losing

memory of something like you are you

your value of pushing it to the present

and always being there is there

something

that you feel that you it's just it's

just reconnecting with people with

um uh you know what it used to be

because now in this time and age a lot

of um food products are all mass

produced by machines yes

you know so with revising these shapes

that are that originated as

uh as handmade pasta which was in a time

where machines didn't exist because

these days the machines are very very

Advanced yeah okay it ends I think in

time to come there could be even a 3D

printer that could do the cloth pasta

right

so yeah like you said it's just a way of

encapsulating all these kind of pastors

and freezing them in in the moment of

time yeah yeah so

that definitely derives a kind of

purpose in what I do yeah it gives

perfect what I do yeah because I'm

bringing people back and reconnecting

them so like a past the time machine

something like yeah this one yes you can

find a machine made by machines today

yes you can find everywhere but know

about time machine you pass the time

machine that means you'll bring people

on Journeys where metaphorical speaking

yeah a lot that you bring them to that

region that they'll never be before we

bring them to a time where they never

would have experienced you're bringing

them to a place that they may not have

the chance to go to yeah yeah yeah yeah

so there are some pastors that uh very

rare okay they may not even know about

it to even go there yeah but I mean sure

now you tell them they may if they love

it that much they can definitely make

the effort to go all the way and I don't

buy much uh By airplane and then take

connecting fly and then arrange for a

tour agency to bring them there and then

all through that trouble just to go to

this one little tiny town

yeah sure they can do that or they they

don't have to like I've just done it for

them receive them the trouble and then I

brought that pasta to the platelet yeah

so to experience how it would have been

there so in a way that kind of saves

them kind yeah so a very curious because

that then you value a certain level of

timelessness archiving something about

history being a historian custodian

something did you see yourself as that

that something that you value this is a

bit there's a possibility I

uh I play with time but I I wouldn't say

I'm the only person who can do in all

these shapes yeah yeah but

um in this time and period in time and

space yeah I'm probably one of the few

or the only one in Singapore they that

borders or or is diligent enough to to

visit all these shapes and to recreate

them

yeah all right yeah all right last

question I have I I love hacking

um live hacking anything right so if

there's something that you can share

about hacking anything like so for

example if I go in order pasta or

something in FMB that you'd be like hey

actually Jason if people do this well

this would be great so a lot of pasta

does right when you when people do them

the shapes that they do

um there's always a easier way around it

uh if you're doing elongated shapes for

example if you're doing gnocchi at home

uh people never see

um

there's actually a way to

uh

cut the process by half yeah

people always kind of um

from a lump of dough they can actually

uh

dissect it lengthwise and then kind of

rolling it out by hand which is so much

quicker than cutting into lumps and then

rolling out by hand because uh by

cutting it an elongated manner you

already have an elongated pasta to roll

out and that's a lot faster

so that is one hack which I learned when

I was working in a restaurant

yeah and it's so much simpler right so

instead of just trying to elongate the

long thing instead of trying to elongate

let's say a round ball yeah for example

it's much easier to elongate a

strips a strip of dough yeah yeah or a

rope of dough which you cut yeah the

Mana in which you cut determines that

right so if you cut along the length of

the dough you said you straight away you

get you know a strip of dough which is

so much easier to roll this is one hack

that I learned now cool yeah one

operational hack

thank you thank you thank you so if

there's anything else uh I really

appreciate your time today if there's

anything else that you want to share

with the audience that something about

following their passion and why would

you actually say to somebody

that maybe it was in The Crossroads same

with you that either had to go down that

path or like

try

don't I mean don't let people

um

don't let people dissuade you from doing

what you want to do don't let people uh

run your lives

right so just believe in what you want

to do keep your head down

uh as long as you believe in it

um just you just you just gotta keep

going obviously there are some people

who are not going to

uh be kosher is you know this

what what you are delivering uh but that

could also be because

I mean they have other interests they

come from a different backgrounds and

it's uh it's a huge World everyone

everyone there's a market there's

something for everyone so you're not out

there to please every single person you

just have to really work to focus narrow

down on your audience and this

kind of do your best and there will be

people out there who will appreciate

what you do right so it's not a

catch-all exercise

just got to be selective and then just

dig deep and

and yeah

value your work value yourself value

your time

and the people who are spending time to

come and to enjoy your art pieces or

your work your experience that you're

delivering

right right thank you so much for today

I really enjoyed it

pleasure

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