TRANSCIPT

Ask The Coach EP02 [Feat. Darren Soon]

* Captions taken from YouTube *

when we think about energy we think

about a child

we think about a damn spoiler why are

you like that right it's work you know

why it doesn't matter whether you're

energized or not actually it's not true

hi darren thank you so much for your

time

hello hi jason hi yeah really happy to

to have this opportunity to to talk to

you i mean following you on your various

channels and

you are an inspiration to me your life

hacks are a live helper definitely yeah

how is going through life hacks i mean i

just wired away since young always want

to go whitehead life hacks and i keep

telling people then people's like very

mad about it and also like i forget it

i'll just share with everybody

yeah exactly and thank you i mean like

or not i i wouldn't have uh you know

learn how to unbuckle my seatbelt faster

and you talk about the the core identity

as well right at the fourth yeah

yeah

life hacker is one of them that's uh

yeah that's fantastic yeah and and you

know i like the i'm on your web page as

well where you have the duct tape and

you see many instances in my life that i

wish i had i know a role of strong duct

tape

in my arsenal there definitely yes

yeah yeah you should i mean like we

talked before this that you have you

have kids and all that well a doctor is

a must man repair shoes prepare bag

repair everything yourselves repairing

books with duct tape it's always beside

me it's ridiculous like people think

that i'm some kidnapper that has a role

duct tape just needs some like raffia

string and all that and cable ties

there could be opportunities for that i

don't know

right but yeah i mean i remember walking

across orchard street road and my shoes

gave out on me on the middle when i was

crossing the street and

yeah so that was uncomfortable i wish i

had duct tape there

totally mentally okay my intern so how

can i help you

um

yeah i like uh someone to explore with

me

um

uh the the situation i'm in okay so um

i'm gonna

uh share a little bit about my my

background so i've been working

in a company

a very good company multinational

company uh there has been a lot of

history it's been around for 100 years

close to 100 years and um

and i'm

been working in that company for 17

years

i remember the exact date that i started

october 25th

2005. so

just to share this damn rare to find

somebody who's yeah who's in this day

and age i've been in company for 17

years and it's not my grandfather's age

or my father's age right

exactly so

i don't have a lot of colleagues who are

you know uh i i'm i'm not the exception

i mean there's there's like 25 years

there's 35 years yeah you got the golden

watch thing as well i think that's two

years ago as well so okay it's not

unheard of in my company and maybe

that's why uh

it's it's it's a sign that it's it's a

good company to work yeah and um two

years ago if you ask me there was i had

but yeah i mean this this is it i mean

this is where i'll

probably be i mean it's given me a lot

of opportunities so i mean i said same

company but uh i had the opportunity to

work in different countries i was

working like in china working in

indonesia

they have given me a lot of opportunity

to to grow myself i mean i've traveled

extensively

because of the company i've been to

places like latin america which oh nice

given my own choice i would not

go because it's a 40 hour flight

yeah but i think as life goes on i mean

when i joined the company i was not

married yet i was single i mean like

yeah you know throw me out there i don't

mind camping on the streets of paris

as well right yeah

but with a family so um your commitments

change yeah

okay and

now

after the the up

we are now coming back to the new normal

after the pandemic and starting to think

about

hey you know um that that next 25 years

yeah yeah next 30 years is starting to

lose its shine

yeah

okay okay so the issue now is that um

the question is really

do i what do i do now right i'm feeling

this way i love the company i

um i just feel a little bit stuck

yes

right okay so

if you if you were to think about it

then

if i were to just ask you to

think about all the things that energize

you in the company right now

right so specific tasks that energize

you

right and then there are also tasks on

the other side of it where tasks drain

you

right i'm not talking about competency

i'm just talking about energy level

right right so for the things that

energize you are you still doing it

uh much less now because of the

pandemic okay so what really energized

me is um the travel i mean even though

it conflicts with the family commitment

but i do

like that opportunity to meet

uh our customers uh to go out to meet

different people from different cultures

and

and

be able to share

and and

what i feel that i share helps them

uh in their you know i know everyday

work right

with my company so that is really

valuable and of course i haven't

traveled

the last three years and everything's

been done through

zoom or

microsoft teams online and there's an

element lost there i mean just yesterday

which is something else that energizes

me as well is that i had i was asked

because i'm seen as like someone as a

senior in the company right okay to

give a few words of inspiration to uh up

and coming leaders who i guess hope also

stayed for another 17 years um

and and it was

done through uh through uh online right

and

yeah you know i was trying to

get them to create an open atmosphere

like what we're having today yeah like

yeah please you know it's quite common

for everyone to mute your mind but

actually you know we're only a group of

ten right it's quite cozy uh and i'm

sure that if if you were in real life we

were in let's say the board room right

in a big meeting room

you know there's there's no mute button

yeah right it's it's we're there but

face to face i can see if you want to

pick up a cup of coffee yeah you want to

go out to the

to the bathroom right now we have to you

know right excuse me i need to go to the

bathroom yeah and then that's this

feeling of uh

you know we're not forcing you to stay

online there yeah

so that's what i'm using so

so you so energized by travel that's one

thing energized by uh so you still give

a few words of inspiration

uh hopefully they will stay on as uh for

17 years as well yeah so for you then um

what is it is it more of um you feel

that

there are things that you're energized

but you're not doing anymore or is it

more of like um

uh is it more of the interest is wayne

what is it for you

yeah i think

i i like this this connection to to

people and and being

on the ground going out uh to meet new

customers and i feel that

the next 25 years i just see

that opportunities for that will be

getting less and less because as you

move up

hierarchy then it becomes more policy

making more

inspiring more

you know adjusting behind the scenes

kind of thing but not making a direct

impact

so

yeah that that de-energizes me okay okay

to

to convert

to convert

real life into numbers so and a lot of

what i do is also modeling uh business

metrics with business numbers right into

a model so that we can make a decision

yeah and that

part uh luckily uh is more and more

being uh delegated uh to a like a back

office team to do the crunching

so that's the other day that

de-energizes me

and

i come from my generation where you know

numbers and math and science

is considered like a good if you can do

mathematics you can do science yeah

you're considered smart so i you know

there was a decision when i was in uh

you know

set three where you need to decide

whether you go to the sign stream or the

art stream yeah

right and because i'm good at studies

you know i went to science screen was

like no no-brainer

right and then after you do the

ascension then you go to to uh you know

a level then you go to university and

it's science science math math always so

i'm a trained engineer okay

okay

right and and i don't like it

you don't like it

no no i i'm actually i have to be quite

honest like uh

at a levels then you know it's like it's

like a herding house you know the

the school that i was in was trying to

see how many we can

groom towards or push towards you know

like the top ranking university because

that will build their steps right

they'll come into the newspapers so that

they can attract more students and that

cycle continues basically

and so

i do well in math and science because i

only doing math and science

in

i felt was a bit narrow it was

engineering it was some you know

physicists or whatever right

and

it felt like yeah the the from from

university all the way to to work it's

all like those you know numbers numbers

yeah yeah but that is not something that

i like i can do

don't like to do right yes and i've been

doing that for 17 years now oh my

goodness are you serious

yeah exactly

okay okay my first role

uh okay so so if i ask you from a skill

i'd like to use a ruler in coaching the

ruler helps us to

take away all the vagueness

so when it comes to the energy ruler

from scale of 0 to 10 when you just

think about numbers

10 being that you feel very energized

you know your heart sings you feel like

wow joy like marie condo that kind of

thing that's 10. zero means like you

feel like what kryptonite to superman

you touch it you like kind of like

it sucks the life out of you

and this is about energy

it is not about competency

right right i can be damn drained but i

can do very well because i put in four

hours instead of the other guy who's

talented that's putting in one hour

for numbers

mats all these things for you from zero

to ten what is it

i would say it's about a four okay yeah

then you're totally doing something that

you're not supposed to be doing

yeah it's a it's a form because i think

that when i think about numbers i can

switch off a part of me yeah and get the

job done right yeah so um

it's it's scary uh so if i if you just

think about this why do you have a

quadrant right there's a quadrant where

the um there's x-axis and y-axis x-axis

is about energy level right

um higher energy low energy then

the y-axis is about competency you

looks like you are in high competency

low energy

yes right that's correct i call that

hollow endeavor

aha okay yes

and i also call that the professional

trap and a lot of people not only you

are there that means you wake up one day

knowing that you can close your eyes to

do your work

but it doesn't your heart doesn't sing

you're there because you are responsible

uh you are the go-to guy you are

everything else

but it doesn't mean that you are

flying

you're an eagle that's running but not

an eagle that's fine

and the

very funny thing is that our bosses our

team members will never ever see that

they will see you as the person who

loves numbers good at numbers

we should give him more opportunity to

do numbers

yes

at least the numbers part of the work

correct i mean

i'm dependent on to to deliver the

numbers of course

and a lot of my work

the lower energy

work is to convert the numbers from

reporting and that's that's what i'd

rate which i need to do every month

to explain

numbers

okay okay so if you think about it then

we want to go into the other quadrant

and the other quadrant where is high

energy and high competency yes

and what i call primal greatness

it is something that's just very innate

uh it is using your natural talents it

is like an eagle that first started to

to uh

it's an eagle like this that's either

starting to fly or already has flown yes

you know how it feels like it feels

natural it feels a little bit less

effort when you're carrying that task it

doesn't feel heavy it feels light yes

right so if i

yeah so whenever we talk about careers

it's always the idea that

do you know specifically what is your

primal greatness and primal greatness is

always about high energy high competency

where people can go to you

and when they request something for you

you feel your heart is excited it's

energizing

so when when you think about this one

exercise you can do is to actually i'll

send you a form where it looks at all

these four quadrants and i do this a lot

for careers right these four quadrants

about

where you will list down the things

currently

that you're doing in each of the coins

yes

and the funny thing about it is that

to be fulfilled in life

we need to understand that we are built

differently you are built very

differently from somebody else your

peers can love numbers you look at that

person you may think that okay this

person is just okay he's just like that

it's not you so what we want to do is to

be very clear about

the specific task that you do

right and that's going to be your

arsenal the task that you do that is

energizing and high competent

and

the task that you do that's energizing

and low competency as well

yes right that quadrant low competency

we call it misguided output

that means there is a chance for you

to be to bring it up to primal greatness

and why is primal grain is so important

as that quadrant

is because

see the funny thing is that

your boss and your co-workers might tell

you that hey darren not true i think you

love numbers

right they can tell you that it's point

blank

but they are wrong

and you are 100 correct when it comes to

energy ruler yes

the x-axis you

you own the x-axis yes the y-axis

however

you don't own it your boss your your

co-workers the market owns it

they will tell you whether you are [ __ ]

at it you're good at it

so the y-axis however unfortunately

management and leaders they only look at

the y-axis for most people they never

care about their energy level they will

never ask you darren when you're doing

this excel or report how long do you

take they'll never ask you that no right

because it gets done by the deadline

correct yeah but you are up there at 2

am 3 am doing that report that drains

the heck out of you

and nobody knows that they just see a

good work and it's like wow okay great

so they assume that you love it

yes

so that's the danger so when we think

about this first thing to do is do the

exercise

right

then you know specifically what are the

tasks that energize you and drain you

then you have this thing called leverage

because now you have no idea whether or

not to carry on with the company

and help them understand that hey

actually i'm i'm really great at these

things is there a role that i can play

that do more of these things

then you don't even need to leave right

because now you're feeling more and more

energized the second thing

if really worst case sorry we can't

really do that while everything is

frozen and things like that then the

other option is always looking outside

right but when you look outside the

danger is that you're going to put in

your entire resume of all the things

that drain you as well yes that's right

because why

is everything yourself draining well

that's a really long call [ __ ] man so

so

if we put that in the resume guess what

happens

we are perpetuating the same thing

that's going to happen for the next 17

years yes

so you put experience experience

experience and it's drain drain drain

ranger and every now and then you put in

something that's energizing and guess

what you will find people that will ask

you oh you're so much experienced in

this competency the y-axis darren i

think you should be suitable in this

role of course i'll be suitable in this

role but i would die there yes

internally i will die there yes so the

other option is that when you are so

clear about the task very specific tasks

that you do that energize you

then you are able to actually

present that and start to rebrand

yourself if we talk about resume site

outside

rebrand yourself actually no it's both

sides once you have a conversation once

you know this you can have a

conversation with your boss with your hr

and say that okay these are the things

that really i feel

uh we never say that oh i feel good

about it and that's why we do it i guess

why i want a job that's that we never do

that because why hr and your boss

doesn't give a [ __ ] about that that's

correct it is always the value add to

the company what's the productivity

what's the efficiency exactly

performance so when you brand it when

you talk to about this it's always about

i feel i can contribute the most

in these areas it's never about oh i

feel energized that's why i want this

because energy

happiness

very hard to quantify so most people

don't give a [ __ ] about it

yes

so when we brand this once you do this

and you brand it you brand it internally

or externally it's always about this i

feel

throughout my 17 years i have known that

this is my greatest value add to any

organization external or within the

organization these are things that i

will value at so much and the

conversation is never about bad

too good

the conversation is always about yes i

can do all these numbers things and i'm

good at it yes but you haven't seen

greatness

that's right

so you help them understand that there's

good to great there is a 9 upon 10 there

is a 10 upon 10.

yes that's right

and for them it's always about

performance productivity results and no

boss or hr would would turn that down if

you say that you can contribute so much

more to the organization if you do these

hey it's a no-brainer for them they want

to be able to explore it doesn't mean

they will give it to you but they want

to be able to explore

i pause now for a while just any uh your

thoughts so far

that's that's the worry i have because i

think i've been suppressing myself you

know doing the tasks that that and

if i i realize now that when i bring up

an inc and you know manage my team and

i'm trying to guide them and mentor them

i would just say that you know like

all work there's always the portion that

that it sucks

every single person has things on the on

the other side which is the training

part everyone

exactly but i think that

for my portion then like like i i would

even say that if the work is you know

like 50

60

you know that's that's the way it is

just do it and then suck it up and do it

yeah and that's what i've been doing for

for so long right you know like telling

myself that yeah i mean that's that's

part of the job it's you know you don't

like it yeah then you probably leave it

to the last minute and then you know

because you can do it you can do it but

you don't do it well because you know

it's just to get it out of the way right

yeah

no so the funny thing is that you can do

it people might think that you do it

well

yes

right but you you know that you don't

push it you don't push that barrier it's

almost like if i ask a sprinter

to do a marathon they just something is

not right right they can do it but it's

just that they they don't have that like

yeah that flow

right

yeah exactly i mean like

like

if i'm like playing sports then you know

like you're not okay i don't really like

it anyway yeah so i won't i won't push

myself to to break past my limits

okay you know and i wouldn't even care

i'll be like uh hypothetically like okay

yeah so i lost okay who cares i lost the

race exactly okay it didn't really

matter to me anyway yeah but the the the

challenge i have now is that because i'm

not uh talking about the energy exits

like i do identify tasks that energizes

me like for example like uh talking to

customers and

you know helping them you know like

connecting on a more human level yeah

individually so i know their names i

know

you know what really matters to them

right and then i i connect with what how

i can help them uh give value to them

to individuals

and

there was not many opportunities to to

uh to do that right i took the example

of if i i was asked by the company to

fly to uh bolivia in south america and

that was because uh one i'm the go-to

guy because i'm the one person that

knows uh the most about the operations

okay so i was sent to to fly 48 hours to

south america to conduct a training

because they cannot fly afford to fly

too many people are certified only and

they trusted me to give the truck and

that was super energizing so i was

meeting people from uh you know like uh

venezuela ecuador trinidad tobago you

know you have this uh this very piratey

kind of english in the degree super cool

yeah what's up man

and

so that was really really you know like

breaking across cultures i mean some of

their english is not so good having a

deal with them learning about you know

what is

how they what makes them tick right yeah

and then giving that sending around a

room and giving them that that that

uh training

and feeding off their their energies

that to me is is what i want to spend

more time like doing yeah

okay so so one thing is that um you're

absolutely right when it comes to

opportunities

see when you don't know what is

energizing or trading everything is

together you just look at competency

right and that's the previous 17 years

you just look at competency i'm good at

it my boss feels that i'm good at it hey

this is work

we are grown ups let's just do the work

right correct yeah because when we think

about energy we think about a child

we think about a damn spoiler why are

you like that right

it's work you know why it doesn't matter

whether you're energized or not actually

it's not true

the very funny thing is that if you want

to be the number one in your industry

the best of the best right

you need something that is you need to

leverage your unfair advantage inside

here

um

unfair advantage trustee that means

something that the mission just innately

already yeah so you so when you okay so

give your example when you talk to

different cultures and all that you feel

energized we're not sure whether that's

really something energizing it could be

something novel

that means like first time you eat laksa

he's like wow so cool yeah but

i give you laksa 20 bowls if the 20 bowl

you still say you like it then i i

guarantee that you like it

yes right so everything must be tested

by time

so we're not sure yet if i give you like

five other cultures to talk to and you

really love to talk to different people

and cultures and you appreciate that

uniqueness of each culture

and you do it so many times and you

still say it's energizing jason then it

is energizing

okay

so it has to be tested

as well so in the past what should have

been done in the 17 years is that always

identifying energizing and draining and

always having conversations with your

boss in hr

um

there's this thing there's this

so when we talk about the bottom part

which is uh highly energized but

not competent

below average those are the misguided

output that is where we talk about

opportunities

hey boss i actually overheard that was

sending a team to this place

um

i know it's a little bit of my job scope

i really want to be able to learn i want

to be able to expose to that because

that might be something i am quite

interested in on top of the things that

you're already doing

if you can help help your boss

understand that i will still do my work

but that's something of a stretch

project i want to be able to discover

myself

then those mascara output then you start

to be very clear oh i've i tried this

out i tried this knockout i actually

know i thought it was something but it

wasn't

then you put it under that side so you

keep testing

then for me in my my life i've gone

through 32 different jobs and businesses

32. amazing

i don't think you find anybody else so

i'm that crazy about trying to figure

out exactly what is energizing but the

funny thing is that imagine this like

the whole your whole life eat chicken

rice

right whole life eat chicken rice

i love it also right

but the thing is then if you don't take

other things you never know what's your

next go-to food what's your nice what's

the food that you enjoy same thing as a

career same thing as a job you can never

i can no but somebody can sit down

beside you and tell you all the textures

of laksa you will never understand it

same thing i can tell you everything

about this new job that i feel that you

will love

but when you taste it you will know the

truth

so

at this point of time if let's say

option a is carry on the company

it is to keep asking for opportunities

where you feel energized

right find opportunities where you

overhear a project where you sound you

you kind of like oh i'm part of this

project but i'm only doing this part can

i go to that team also and sit in or do

that part as well so you're always

tasting different foods oh so if one day

it's laksa one is testosterone or fun

one day it's everything else so every

time you're tasting you are clearer

about the doors to close

how do i know that that

uh

if because there's not enough time to

try everything right because

not enough time so so that there must be

a certain way to at least

choose

like okay what type of uh

range

to try i mean like like i don't think i

have the the the courage like you have

to try 32 different

i don't know i only tried one but then

yeah so

um it's the same thing if i ask you go

to hawker center and i'd ask you like um

what's your favorite food and you only

eat chicken rice in your heart you know

that you cannot say anything

right so it's really the idea of how

much how badly you want this

and if you want it very badly then there

are some things that definitely need to

be sacrificed that means you might be

working even more

because why you're stretching these are

all stretch

cca eca kind of projects things that

it's outside of your scope

but you need to test it out if you want

to really be fulfilled and really

leverage on the things that's inside

your talents your unique talents and

strengths you need to test so what you

test first you test for the very first

thing that energizes you you feel that

for all the five opportunities i have my

boss has given me five opportunities

from a scale of zero to ten see which

one is the highest number

okay

and then just go for that one first

and taste it and you feel that okay ah i

quite quite energizing oh actually no it

sucks then you go to the next one go to

the next one the thing about it is that

whenever we look for opportunities in an

in an organization we always look for we

think about visibility pay promotion yes

correct right this is going to be good

for you in the long run but that's

corporate talk

yes

right it's not about me

because i mean i've never sought

visibility as well

yeah but for for them um they will

always say this is good for you for your

next one because the assumption is

always that everybody wants to be

promoted right and hey this one is a

good project this helps you get

visibility for this

that's the carrot yes normal always

normal and then we bite that carrot and

then we like what the heck so yes it is

for the five opportunities that you have

for for example

they will tell you this is the best for

visibility this might be the worst for

you

very very worst one this might be the

most draining of draining this is for

example this is like come out with 20

excel spreadsheets every day that kind

of thing

right but what visibility damn good you

could talk to the big big boss exactly

yes

so if you have exactly those

opportunities you know i'm gonna normal

totally normal so but then what do we do

if we don't if we're not clear about our

own we don't even audit ourselves in

terms of the energy level this looks

like the best option it's the most

logical option

correct so now

from this point onwards now we look at

it in the scale of energy level

and the reason is not so much your pay

and promotion the reason is for you to

close doors in your life so you can be

clearer and clearer

for your next 20 years

and it doesn't matter whether it's this

company or next company you just need to

be so clear and audit your own life

about okay i tried this out this is not

try this out this is not i thought i

like this it's not but this one it their

fire continues on

right again and again then you find more

and more opportunities for this one open

that scope up

yes

and that's not very natural i think like

people in in companies they they want

you to stay in your your lane they want

you yeah and they they i mean even i i

tell my stuff like when they say oh i

want to try something else uh no no i

want you to get me that report done on

time i want you to get your job done on

time

or i would pre-define a lane for them to

drive pretty much okay i think because i

have a need there like i need them to do

that job so you need to have my kid or

not yeah exactly you need a hammer you

look like a hammer you better you jolly

well be a hammer because i'm your boss

and that's

i think you won't break up when i start

using you as a hammer yes exactly you

might be a screwdriver but yeah it's

pretty tough right yeah yeah so you can

actually use a screwdriver for a hammer

but then

it's it's always a solution base um

we're trying to fix things so in a

company it's always we have an engine we

have a thousand parts you look like this

part you go in there and then you just

grind yourself to a point where you look

like them more and more um

the the issue there is that

old school way

old school this is no issue our parents

time our grandparents time no issue at

all yes correct

now

you ask that to be done

um

similar to you the younger generation is

even more

sensitive to this idea that i am a

screwdriver what the heck am i doing as

a hammer

yes

and so what happens

there will be there'll be a lot of

attrition a lot of issues with retention

that's correct that's happening yes

normal and what i see in the next five

ten years there will be a lot of job

popping to a point where hr just has to

be

instead of being like wow this guy

drop-off too many times are really bad

employee

yes right to a point where hey well hr

wow this guy dropped hot but he's really

sincere genuine about trying to figure

out what he's good at

correct

so it's going to be a shift

yeah that that sounds not we're not

there yet i think and that sounds

totally not there yet

but you will have you're on the horizon

okay but it will happen because it's the

same thing in university also we won't

give a [ __ ] about people in university

with a degree anymore we give a [ __ ]

more about portfolios in the future

if you can sus you can show me real life

examples that the market wants your

service

yes rather than the damn bloody degree

that means for example you're doing

sales oh i sell i sell basketball cards

and since my sales i've been doing this

i now have a team and all that oh my

goodness yes i want you in my sales team

rather than this guy who did an mba has

zero sales background nothing i'd rather

choose this guy

can do a great presentation

yeah not only that by their results

so when we talk about portfolios in the

future it's the same thing there's a

shift when it comes to hiring people so

it's normal about that idea of that okay

i have a very nice degree something

abc's behind my back is about portfolio

i've done this before in the real life

people have paid me money

and that's why i will be a great service

to your company i would hire this guy

rather than this guy

well then you could even argue that

companies in the future might not be

important so much anymore because i mean

let's say

uh let me take the analogy that you gave

right now i'm trying different uh

contribution in different areas in in my

company but some of those those areas

contribution might be not specifically

linked to my my title or my role

you might be doing uh completely

something else right maybe i'm uh

you know like working with uh uh helping

the homeless in the company as part of a

corporate social responsibility program

right it could be and that's not part of

my role so then does it really matter i

did that in which company

it doesn't matter so the companies are

the future to actually hold people and

retain talent

the movement within companies needs to

be a little bit more

flexible

if not let's say you

do i want to keep you if i'm your

company of course i want to keep you

like you've been there 17 years my god

right i want to keep you

but if i don't if i'm not flexible as a

company to say that darren i understand

that you want to try certain things okay

we actually have this um i'm willing to

be able to give you like stretch

projects and all that if you don't guess

what happens

you just go outside

yes someone else will need to give you

stretch somebody else would do that and

then i just lost somebody who is who

already knows the ins and outs of my

company

who really has enough network and

influence to be able to get things done

like that

right

so why not keep him and if the only way

to keep him is for him to actually

explore different things then i better

have a system where i can people can

really explore

i see your point

so coming back the main thing to do at

this point of time is to audit yourself

and once you audit yourself ask for

opportunities

where you are able to taste different

food

and

you track the energy level from zero to

ten

and make sure that those things that you

you track are the things that energize

you you pay more attention to and and

open up that scope okay i enjoy talking

to

people who are from diverse backgrounds

okay so that's one could be right it's a

theory as an assumption we haven't

tasted we haven't tested it with time

yet

then let me try okay so let me try with

another project that's similar to that

or let me try about oh okay maybe i'll

do this there's something about that as

well

then i test test test to a point where

you're you're kind of discovering it

like how far is that scope when it comes

to talking to different people oh i

don't like talking to different cultures

when it comes to policy making

i hate that oh yeah but i enjoy talking

to people when it comes to somehow being

able to develop them and grow them in a

certain area and educate them oh i like

that about that so you start to niche

niche to a point where you're so clear

make sense and this this is the

beautiful thing

it doesn't mean that there's only one

thing that you do

there can be five different things that

energize you it is not that one

that one path right it is many many

different paths that keep moving around

okay so when you go so give your example

for me i was basking on the streets of

orchard road right i was basking i write

my own songs me and my best friend mark

we were there basking and all that and

shake haika actually interview us

because we were like what are these two

guys doing there and all that

if sony music came and signed me up i

would not be here now

i'll be touring

as a musician

and i will be enjoying my life

it just so happened that i didn't have

that opportunity

could i have been a musician i could

have does it fire up things that because

it helps me connect with people it helps

me to help them to bring out something

about them it does

yeah then as a performance coach i have

more opportunities opening up and that's

why i am here now so your life

think of it as i don't know whether you

watch doctor strange multiverse yeah

have you watched uh no but i plan to

yeah i also plan to so your life in your

career it's a multiverse

in depending on the different

opportunities the doors are

opportunities that open

you could be somebody who's totally into

culture

yes correct helping the company with all

the cultural aspects inclusivity and all

that could be it could also be about

educating

you love to teach people certain things

right

it could be also about yeah many things

about oh maybe about i enjoy innovating

certain things i always come up i always

have um if you live like if you love

life hacks yes similar to me you're

always trying to find a shortcut

to try and find the best way possible

correct

right

then you could be the guy that goes in

sees a system and says this is screwed

up

hack it

come up with four steps to uh take out

four steps

save a million dollars save 25 20 000

hours and you are that kind of guy that

is a systems performance hacker yes all

these things are totally

viable

in the next 20 years for you it just

depends on what opportunities open up

correct

so

as well

it is the market the market kind of

tells you that this that yes so success

is what preparation meets opportunity

right

so preparation for our in our mind

preparation is not so much of

preparedness but more of innate talent

your innate talent meeting opportunities

gets you success if i

i love writing songs and music

but sony didn't come to me i didn't have

the opportunity i loved hacking things

and performance and companies came to me

i am now a performance coach

so

how do you because we only have a

limited amount of energy to to uh to to

taste uh new things right yeah i mean it

might energize you but then after a

while when there's no opportunity then

that you will also use up that limited

energy that you have so that's to me

also my my concern i mean and i feel of

course that i'm now running a bit behind

because i've always been working on the

competency

scale right okay just do more things

that that i know that i can do and i can

deliver and also

gives me the opportunity yeah i do well

and gives me the opportunity to uh

to progress in a career yeah

but then i sort of suppress the things

that i find energizing

yeah even if i'm given certain uh like

small chances to to work with it yeah

how to know whether to like persist like

no that's what really energizes me so

i'm going to take my limited time and

then focus on finding more opportunities

to like like take your example of like

how do you know that to not just

persistently continue busting in orchard

road right until uh or maybe in orchard

road and then i don't know other other

roads as well in singapore

until finally that you do a breakthrough

yeah

so that is the question that it's um

it's a seasonal question what we can do

and as a farmer we can sow the seeds the

weather is something that we cannot

control

sometimes it doesn't come

right so it depends on how much your

will is to

carry on with that while you're trying

other things and sometimes you don't

need to try just one thing right you put

all your crops that one one crops maybe

you would die because

if you actually open up and says that

okay i'm gonna try culture i'm gonna try

educating i'm gonna try performance

hacking as well within my company then

of all these things hey actually one of

the things that people actually

they want more of

then you just go with it you go with

whatever the fire is

and you don't know you can try one two

times and then you feel that

i'm not sure nobody in the company at

this point of time the company is not

looking at this they don't really bother

about cultural aspect that much then

that door is closed for you

then you have two other doors educating

and innovating

and performance hacking oh then then you

go with that so whatever there is fire

and you know that the fire inside your

heart doesn't go away right it just

doesn't it just keeps burning and

burning it is the emails that you open

up first rather than the emails that you

open up last yes

it's the things that it's a task that

you look forward to i'm excited of that

meeting compared to i dread that meeting

so your emotions are the clearest way to

understand what your innate talents are

because an eagle doesn't need to know he

kind of just knows that when he's

running

uh right man but when he's flying

everything just clicks it's like wow

everything is like supernova

so

find ways that you can keep trying

different opportunities however

because you are so ingrained into

something already

for you to move out

imagine you've been digging 17 years

into one

one area of expertise yes

you're right you're right you mean to

move out

it's it's painful it's like i've been

sitting in one position

position very long and they're trying to

now move to a new position that muscles

is like it's already stiff there right

exactly so you're eager

my picture reminds you an eagle with

damn big muscles on the legs yeah

exactly sitting down

no not sitting down you think you're

australian everybody everybody wants you

to be an ostrich you're running around

like crazy but you're an eagle with damn

big muscles on the legs and your wings

are extremely atrophied very small

exactly right right

to move them actually yeah but when you

move the funny thing is that your wings

will come back really fast

anything that energizes you you kind of

click it and the funny thing about it is

that the one of our concerns will always

be

so

if i do this new thing i have to learn a

lot i have to learn a lot i i i'm

lagging behind

all those in front of me right yeah

exactly they're so much better and all

that guess what if you are innately

talented in it you will beat them in no

time

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because your mind is already wired for

that you will see nuances about certain

things that people will not see

because you are talented in it

so for a soccer ball in front of ronaldo

he's talented in it he will see nuances

about things that we don't even see

maybe his corner of his eye is damn

sharp he knows exactly where everybody

is you know that kind of thing he knows

how to strike to another person who is a

defender maybe that's not something that

they look at they don't look at those

opportunities so it's very different so

don't worry about the the thing about oh

i'm going to take a long time that

journey of learning is going to be

enjoyable and that's beautiful

i see your point yeah that really hits

home actually yeah so think about it

when you're younger the subjects that

really you

look forward to you didn't really need

to study

yes that's correct right it's raining i

did well yes but the more i did well in

those subjects the more i was

moved along the path of least resistance

basically to be where i am now yeah yeah

yeah years later

but when so so then also when you think

about in the in the company when you

first started korea first three years

first five years the things that came

naturally to you you didn't really need

to study but you saw your peers

struggling

yes

and we always have this thing hey darren

so wow you did this for a very long time

is it and you always say no i didn't i

just started off

those are the clues to the talents that

you have the things that you innately

learn faster than any everybody else the

things that you innately have the fire

the energy level these are clues to the

things that you should be banking on you

should be betting on for the longer term

but because 17 years of of of digging to

move that it's not going to be a one day

thing

yes it might be a two three year thing

to be able to slowly shift

to be able to gain that competency where

people say hey i think darren has been

doing these five projects

um and i think yeah we actually have a

need here

maybe we should try to transition him

out because why you go to your boss i

like doing this they'll be like screw

you because like you have no competence

exactly

so you need to

prove it

and so that one degree every month

slowly slowly

you're able to move

yes

and the the energy levels would be like

sort of like the guiding pose basically

yes i'm not moving in the right

i'm digging out the right way basically

yes

yes and and you can dig five things and

it's all energizing you just keep

digging to a point where you know the

bit rock to a point where you cannot go

anymore let's say we talk about air

we're still staying in your company

we're digging and what this is like

solid rock cannot dig anymore because

why policy

uh company has done this before not

doing it anymore whatever it is okay you

have five you close one you go to the

next one and you keep digging and after

a while you will see that there was

maybe one or two more one or two okay

that you can continue doing the company

appreciates it there is an opportunity

for you to move

okay so don't dig until uh

another bedrock and then give up there

because there should be other

opportunities also that no no one is

built to i have only one no one is

building only one yeah

yeah so i could have been yeah

i could have been there i could have

been so many things in my life i could

have been a local designer i really

enjoyed design

cool really enjoy so you ask me do logos

and all that all um whole day i enjoy it

a lot so i could have been also but just

same thing

my talent but opportunities the door

wasn't there

right and that's it so think of your

career really as doctor strange

multiverse then you don't so hard up

like well i'm banking on this one thing

it must be this one thing no it's not

right

yes

that's true i mean the pressure is

to dig as well yeah based on what you

feel is energizing yeah unfortunately

you cannot so but when we think about it

darren

17 years is a long time but the next 25

years is a bloody long time

it's even longer that's the

that's the last

important part yeah so do you want to be

25 years of doing [ __ ]

no of course we don't want so we need to

keep putting the investment of time

effort

of self-discovery

cool thank you thanks jesus

any other questions man

no no i mean i you've given me a lot of

uh i mean

things to chew on now exactly and you

probably need to to sit in my hole now

too to like marry me yeah yeah but but

it's very normal uh what you're going

through and the people i coach it's just

very normal because

management it just to share management

is very arcade that means very very old

school very ancient management is about

you

sitting down just doing your job

and

not complaining

yes

that's it and

that's the most beautiful management

performance i fear i become as well

because i mean naturally progression

after you know you spend enough time you

naturally tend to

just because opportunity is there maybe

like my boss decides to go back home or

then then that spot is there then yeah

right and then yeah you end up having to

probably be faced with the same

pressures to uh

um to think that way yeah i need to get

the job done because my boss on top of

me is asking for for results yeah yeah

but it's a very different landscape so

the future landscape is really the idea

that uh

uh our employee and our staff we need to

see it more as our our clients

yes

so companies need to see it as

clients if we don't see it as clients we

don't see it as engagement we don't see

it as there's a need for a concierge

service where we want to understand

what's happening to each person and

that's hr's role and hr will actually

become more and more um what do you call

it individualized

then

we're going to lose a lot of talent

correct instead of converting people

into numbers and putting them into

different boxes yeah and that's old

school that's okay for the old economy

yeah yeah

all right man hey jason thank you thank

you so much

for this

most welcome really hope i helped you uh

i'm passionate about this and yeah i'll

send you the thing about the what you

can fill up and use that as your guide

to be able to

audit your own job

then after that ask for opportunities

cool thank you

all right man

hey thank you so much most welcome take

care then

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